Still no Christians have replied to this question, and one even downrated it! LOL!

Good question! Yes, he is :D

Entrapment I say! I want a lawyer.

What kind of god tests his/her creations? It appears his/her intent was for them to prove their love/devotion to him. What kind of god has to prove how awesome he/she is over an asshole like satan? What kind of god has an ego to maintain? Did adam and eve even know how to write about their peril? and if so, wheres there scripts and personal addition in the bible? Oh the many question i have that will never be given a good answer.

Right, how can man be blamed. I bet he's also employed by the US Government. It would explain many things....no.

No. As much as people would like to blame God for the evil in the world, He or she is not responsible for the choices of men. It is the choices that people make that determine the amount of good or evil that are in the world. Just because there is evil in the world does not exempt us from making proper choices or being accountable for our actions. God also created the angel that later became satan. He wasn't created as satan. He became satan through his own actions.

This God plays games. The God I believe in doesn't play games. This God is guilty of entrapment! Christians are lead to believe that God got mad because they ate the forbidden fruit, but that he knew that it was going to happen, so he knew before creation that he was going to send his only Son to die for the sins that we will commit because he was going to create the whole original sin scenario.....Isn't this just nonsense!!!!!

Interesting question, but there are two important point which were not mentioned: 1) God told them very clearly not to do it 2) God created them with free will And somehow, I am glad that they did it, otherwise, none of all these wonderful people would ever have existed.

God did not create robots, he created humans. And, He said they were very good and he loves them. He wants us to love Him too, but He doesn't force us to. So, choose the snake, or choose Him. It's up to you. It's not entrapment, it is free choice. Clearly, He loves you, and is seeking you, or you wouldn't be asking this question. Love Him back and ssek Him, or run the other way -- He will not force you, but He will wait for you.

"why is mankind to blame for original sin?" Who said mankind is, God didn't. So we have to ask those who point the finger at mankind - where is your evidence that mankind was involved? I certainly wasn't. I wasn't even consulted. As for "Isn't God guilty of entrapment?" Well I'm not sure about "guilty". I will go along with "didn't God allow?" And the answer would be yes of course, and He still does. How else would your belief in and obedience of Him be an act of free will. There has to be an alternative, and those not believing in God will strive to make it a credible alternative. That's where the test comes in.

No, because man and woman chose to sin. They did not have to, but they did. Sometimes I've wondered if the purpose of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was to be a test to see if man loved God enough to obey one simple commandment, to see which man would choose, good or evil, and to see which spiritual father man would choose, God or Satan. Man chose evil, and he chose Satan over Christ. Thankfully, God spared them and killed an animal in their place and gave them the animal's fur for a covering and gave them the promise of a Saviour who would come. He has came already and has died in our place and defeated death, hell, and the grave. All who call upon Him (Jesus Christ) will be saved(Romans 10:9-13). I hope that this is helpful. -In the Master's service. Thank you and God bless you! -In the service of the Master. Thank you and God bless you!

Eve was perfect. Eve had free will. Eve made a bad choice. Her husband followed in her course of disobedience. Her husband blamed his action on the woman God gave him. The snake was a puppet of an evil spirit creature. God didn't force the fruit down anyone's throat.

If a wallet is lying on the ground, and you pick it up, you have the choice to hand it in or keep it.Don't blame the person who dropped the wallet. God put certain things in the Garden, but the humans had the choice to stay in the state they were in, in which everything was perfect and troublefree, or believe the lie that was told to them that God did not really care for them and that they could run the place better anyway. THey soon found out they could not.

At my church, we don't really consider Adam's actions a "sin" in a technical sense. We don't really consider that he was "punished" either. There were consequences, which naturally resulted from the choice they made, but they were not all bad or necessarily unpleasant. Adam and Eve were given a choice. God knew what they would choose, but it was important for Adam and Eve to be able to choose for their own sakes. The making of the choice put mankind in a different, mortal, state, which was necessary for them to be able to grow spiritually.

Point - God Said they would die if they ate the fruit from the tree, and Adam and Eve clearly didn't. Does that make god a liar?

Yes, but Yahweh is guilty of even more than that. 1.) Everything is done by Yahweh's design, according to Yahweh's plan. Therefore, sin, the need for Hell, and the need to send people/entities there to suffer is all by design. It is, in fact, according to Yahweh's plan. Yahweh set up this whole scenario in order to create a situation wherein he "had" to torture people. He's a sadist. 2.) Yahweh created everything according to plan. That is, everything is going according to His plan when humans suffer from devastating diseases, children are killed, war breaks out, women are raped, men are mutilated. Again, He's a sadist. 3.) Yahweh actually commands (see Bible) the genocide of all of the inhabitants of over 60 cities. He kills all of the firstborn of Egypt. He wipes out humanity during the flood. He wipes out Sodom and Gomorrah. In fact, Yahweh LOVES genocide. He's a sadistically genocidal Madman. 4.) According to the Bible, the worst thing you can possibly ever do is not bow down and worship Yahweh and call him righteous (funny thing, as you aren't supposed to lie, but you are supposed to call this sadistic mass murderer righteous...how does one pull THAT off???). In the New Testament, the unforgivable sin is rejecting (by most Christian dogma, refusing to be possessed by) Yahweh's Holy Spirit. Yahweh is a narcissist. 5.) According to Genesis 1:26 and 3:22 ("Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness...", "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever..."), there is an "us" - aka: a pantheon of deities. However, Yahweh insists that His followers deny the existence of the others, and also insists that, rather than a plural "we" creating humans, He did it alone. Yahweh has delusions of grandeur. 6.) Yahweh does some really illogical things. He tests the faith of Job when, in fact, as an omnipresent deity, he already knows what will happen. He marks Cain so that "others might know him" when, according to His own book, the only others alive were his parents (Apparently, Yahweh created them with some memory issues. This is not unlike Bill Gates' Windows 3.11...) Cain goes out and marries, and Yahweh never does say where Cain's wife came from. Yahweh has a looseness of association with truth and reality. He is, in fact, a compulsive, delusional liar. Well, I can go on and on, but let's leave it at this, shall we?

God's intention in the beginning was for man to live in paradise forever. He gave the 1 stipulation. They were tempted by Satan. They disobeyed. Before they sinned they knew no sin they were perfect. Who was Satan? He was one of God's spirit sons {angel,same as Jesus} . He was there when God created the earth{same as Jesus}. Devil means slanderer, liar. Angels can go from good to bad , just like us. Satan began coveting Gods power,worship. These thoughts kept building until he acted on them, he tempted them, they fell for it. He tempted Jesus. We have free will. Jesus does too. Adam brought sin on us . He could of refused to eat the fruit. Sin entered the earth through Adam. God sent his "only begotten son" to redeem us. Jesus CHOSE to do this because he loves us too. His sacrifice was for our salvation to have the hope of a perfect like again like God intended in the first place. It is our individual choice...

The sin did not occur at the exact moment of the creation of Adam & Eve. They were given time to make choices and decisions for themselves, to develop their own personalities. They grew by themselves from their creation to be who they were at the moment of the big test, and it was this self development that was being tested. God designed the test and is responsible for the way the test tests, but it is the actual faulty action of Eve thinking that her loving God could not ever create something that would absolutely kill her (even though He said the forbidden fruit would kill), and so, she thought, there could be no real actual harm in trying the forbidden fruit, that is considered to be the sin. Likewise, when Satan asked God if He were actually needed now that creation was complete and God's great task was over, this was a question that came from the self development that occurs when freedom of thought and choice are offered. God is guiltless here. He just made the test possible, he did not influence its outcome. Cops with radar guns are not guilty of making people drive too fast, they just prove that some choose wisely while others do not. __________ You fail to realize that God so loved his creation (us) that He has often sacrificed many things ... in order to give us the gift of true freedom of choice, He had to give up a small part of Himself. He withholds from Himself some of the knowledge of our future, and some of the power to control our future and our actions, so we are NOT under his control (He WAS all powerful, but He has temporarily taken some of His own power away from Himself). He wants us to be able to willingly choose his guidance. First, he blew his own breath into Adam, giving up a fragment of His own eternal life, to give Adam a slightly divine and everlasting life, unlike all the other life forms He just plain created, this is why we are considered to be above other Earthly life forms. He continues to reduce His powers over us so we may develop on our own ... you seem to indicate He either has not or could not do this. Of course He could take the power back, but He wants us to be truly free so He does not. Part of Him being all powerful is Him having the power to suspend some of His own power so He can give to US. So in the test of the forbidden fruit, God set up the TEST (He did NOT set up a TRAP), then cut Himself out of the picture and waited, without controling any if the events, so He can not possibly be guilty. It was a totally fair test that both Adam and Eve failed and thereby lost what was their everlasting lives. Because of this failure, God once more gives up something and again dimminishes Himself so we may recieve ... the Jews are still waiting for the first coming of the savior while the Christians believe Jesus was & is the savior sent to restore us and fix the mistake made by Adam & Eve. __________ ... as for your metaphor, it is yet another test, but this one has God FORCING all OTHER possible outcomes to be NOT possible ... does not compare to the freedom of choice test with the forbidden fruit.

So what? Let's say he is. Then what? You've got an agenda here, be clear with it.

How can you think like that after knowing that God has created you? And still have had the chance to get 40 points for your Q?

I was actually researching a question very similar to this for a friend of mine (and for my curiosity)! And although I will apologize in advance for the massive length of it (it took about an hour to read) I found a website that begins to answer your question. It addresses the question "Why didn't God stop the process before it started, if He knew of the massive amounts of suffering that would befall many of His creatures??" but at the same time touches on many of the examples/questions you and others have written in this blog. While I have no clue if people coming to this site will actually go and read this article, I just want to point out that there are arguments that support the existence and methodology of a "good God". Thanks! I hope you find the answer you need to find for yourself! http://www.christian-thinktank.com/gr5part1.html oh! And just so that you do know a few things about me, so I am not just a blank face rushing through, I am a believer. I don't claim to know or understand everything. I do know that there are people who know a lot more and use their minds a lot more than I do! So I try to rely on them to do the research in the areas I haven't the ability or desire to do on my own! I do salute you for making this blog and trying to share questions and answers. I hope it creates a lot of discussion! Thanks for letting me post!

Yes, he is, but you try handcuffing the rotten sod.

no, entrapment is commiting a crime you would have normally not have done. Eve fulfilled her destiny and ate the apple.

Yeah, it is definitely a setup. In the first place it seems pointless to create a tree of knowledge on earth if not for the benefit of man. Second, if he honestly did not want them to mess with it he could have put it out of their reach. Not to mention the fact that he claims to know what's going to happen before it happens because he's all knowing. I would say he's stupid but he can't be stupid if he possesses all knowledge so that means he intended it to happen which makes him evil.

That's not true. The truth is, there is no snake or whatsoever. The bible or the ones who use the bible to hold people (priests, christian leaders, pope)made us believe that it is the truth, just for them to have followers and plunder money from us..

Sounds like entrapment to me :)lol

Well, God created us in His own image to have abundant life. He did not make us robots to automatically love and obey Him but gave us the gift of free choice. Hence, we chose to disobey God on our own will, which resulted in our separation.

It's even worse than that. After the Fall, which God only found out about by asking Adam why he was hiding, God had to hustle Adam and Eve out of Eden before they ate from the tree of eternal life (Genesis 3:22-23), the clear implication being that if only Adam and Eve had thought to eat from that tree before God caught them, they would have had eternal life anyway and God would have been unable to do anything about it. The God of Genesis 2-4 is kind of a bungler and certainly not omniscient. The God of Genesis 1 is the one who knows what he's doing and gets the results he wants. The two creation stories (written at very different times) are perhaps the most obvious thematic contradiction in the Bible.

Yeah, and there is no need for a savior or a blood sacrifice or anything like that either, god makes up the rules, so he could have said believe in this magic rock or unicorns and you will have ever lasting life. And if Jews are the "chosen people of god" why if you are an all powerful god would you let your people get screwed so bad. Slavery, wondering the desert for generations, the holocaust. If he can just smite people over but rape in Sodom and Gomorrah. Why didn't he just use his smiting power on the Egyptians or the Nazis? Isn't slavery and homicide worse than homosexuality?

Well, if you're looking for a nice long read, this might explain your little "problem" (actually it does explain it, but hopefully to your satisfaction as well). http://www.christian-thinktank.com/gutripper.html But I ask that you do not make any assumptions about what "I" believe. And please, only argue with me after you have read the whole thing. I doubt you're really willing to, because I think you only asked this question to get a rise out of people, get points, and to further your agenda. I doubt you actually wanted an answer to your question, other than one of agreement (aka a pat on the back). And if you downrate me for saying that, then you are no better than those "Christians" that supposedly downrated YOU. P.S. Also, I couldn't help but laugh my head off after seeing this. This picture was on your website. This is apparently one of your shirt pictures.

I apologize, because I think I am about to go on a rabbit trail from the main question, but I would like to comment on your reply to my first answer (28). Many times I have heard the question, "Can God make a rock bigger than He can move?" As I hear it I just smile, because I know there are many who would shrug their shoulders in confusion or get in a huff because they think you are insulting their God. Well, I know that there ARE some things God can not do. Surprised? :) Well, I know that God can not lie. The Bible clearly says so in Hebrews 6:8. Why? Because by doing so would go against His divine nature. God is truth. So since God cannot lie, and the Bible says that He is all-knowing and all-powerful, we know that those attributes must be His as well since the Bible is God's word or God's story. (At this point I know you must be raising your eyebrows and doing a little smirk because I am just basing this on what the Bible says, but hear me out! :) So if God can't lie, and if He is all-knowing and all-powerful, the real question is, can He limit Himself? Can He limit His knowledge and His power? Well, the Bible clearly shows that He can and will. When God came in the form of Christ, He had limited knowledge (He said that only the Father knows when Jesus will be coming for the second time) and He had limited His power (Jesus said that He could call 12 legions of angels (about 72,000) to His aid, but He chose not to, and instead willingly died on the cross). Would He limit His knowledge and power enough to give us free will? Think about it like this. I know that my kids will not do perfectly in school. Although I know that I could either not give birth to them or else keep them home so that they never fail a test, I don’t, because I want them to learn, even though learning may come from failing. Can their failing test score be blamed on me? No. Am I evil for sending them to school? No. (Although some kids may think so!!) If I went in I could have passed the test easily, but I limited myself and let them have a go at it. I am not evil for sending my kids to school, I am not to blame for their failings, even though I know that there may be a time when it happens. My biggest desire is to see them learn and grow and love and be loved. And that is why God made us. To learn, and grow, and love and be loved. I would not decide to purposely not have a child simply because I know the world is a rotten place and there will be plenty of times that they will fail, sometimes because of their own decisions and sometimes because of others. As a mom, I would love to switch places or give my life to help or save one of my children from any pain during those difficult times. But unfortunately I can’t most of the time. Fortunately God Can and Did. He does love us just as a parent loves a child and willingly gave His life to save us from indescribable pain due to our own selfish decisions, a decision He made before He even made the world. (Titus 1:2) So in reality, He did not set us up to fail- He set us up to win. We are the ones who decide to lose. Magenta, so in terms of your mother and child blame story? If the mom knows the child is going to do wrong and does nothing about it before the child is even conceived, then yes, she is to blame. But if she sets up something to save the child? Then she is a hero. Because what greater love is there than to save someone unlovable?

Sorry I have to answer this way for #26- I can't seem to get the comment button to work right. ~shrug~ ? Anyway, there are many different pairs of glasses people use to look at the world. We seem to have two slightly different pairs. : ) My glasses have the rosy tint of hope in a loving Father, in a hero whose only hope is to rescue me from myself (because He did not desire or create us to die) and love me for myself. While I know that many will look down on that and assume I am naive, weak, and an idealist since I am relying on a God who decided to purposely limit Himself so that good would overcome evil, I know in my heart exactly who I am and Who I need. I am impressed by your tenactity and your pursuit of truth. I wish more Christians had the same kind of drive. I hope that you find what you need to! Thank you for replying without being rude as many often do. Please don't be upset if I say I will pray for you. It is the highest sign of respect and outreach I can give.

whoa lots of good responses on this well in IMO i think that God did this to test our trust and noblage to him

It doesn't say that God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but "caused to grow". He only placed it in the garden to entrap the devil in his evil works. It was a perversion of the truth, and still is (empty philosophy that holds no truth in it, man's reasoning apart from God, produced from the fruits of evil intent). He, Satan, chose to pervert goodness and then use it for bad. After all, noone can become justifiably convicted unless they put into practice what is already in their own heart. The "good and evil" was seemingly good with evil within. And God warned them not to eat of it...identifying it for them (Adam and Eve). Satan chose to spread his philosophy of "free will" (apart from God's will to believe and receieve and live forever) to Eve, seeing that she was suseptable to it. As men look for and take evil advantages of unknowledgable, innocent women's weaknesses, etc. Knowing that it was the "easy in" to Adam's heart as well. But God has a merciful answer, Jesus Christ (His Word), if we only believe by the hearing of the Word of God, and let Him into our hearts by asking Him in, which is His kind will for us. He loved us first...it all starts from there. The serpent became perverted unto himself, by himself (the evil seed). And also implanted the curiosity in Eve that she could become like God by her own "free will" that Satan put in her, by deceit. Thinking herself to be as God before she even ate of the forbidden fruit of unrighteousness. It all starts in the heart, thoughts and intentions. Satan caused Eve to wander, through her own desire to learn. An attribute God put in us all. He conceived a deception in her, causing her to believe that she needed what she already had. He moreless molested/perverted her spiritually. Although He (God) caused to grow "every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food"...does He not cause the sun to shine on the just and the wicked (those who know not God)? That they might have a chance to understand and see goodness, that they might desire it? He helps us..never against us..always for us. Not willing that any should perish. But the maturity of the tares (wicked/unsaved) will show their true value/intent/inwardness/fruits/produce/by their works of unrighteousnesses, as Satan has. As the children of God eventually grow to maturity as well, in their own right, shedding any unrighteousnesses, along the faithful way. By the loving power of His Holy Spirit within us. God searches and knows the heart, intent and will. We are justified by faith, if we only believe. As Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness, producing good fruit/produce/works. God entrapped, or swallowed up death for all time, on our behalf. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son (in place of us, for the propitiation of our own sins). He had a plan before the beginning. Discover the wonderful attributes of God in Christ Jesus, by His Holy Spirit, One on one. Displayed for all mankind to eat of and enjoy. For the earth is filled with His glory, to those who see. Hear and believe. Just ask :) It's the origin that matters....God's Love, amen.

Yes. If God knew what would happen (And since He is all knowing I guess he must have) then there is no way for humans to see it as anything other than entrapment.

Not really. You left out free will. When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice. (Sirach 15:14) The Catholic Church teaches: + The All-Knowing God + God is omniscient. He possesses the most perfect knowledge of all things. In the first place He knows and comprehends Himself fully and adequately, and in the next place He knows all created objects and beings fully. + Free Will + God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be 'left in the hand of his own counsel,' so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him." http://www.nccbuscc.org/catechism/text/pt3sect1chpt1art3.htm + All Knowing vs. Free Will + It might seem that God knowing what our actions will be would cancel out free will. But this is not so. God plan's his will around our free will actions. + Example + I have a small child, I know and love this child with all my heart and mind. This child looks at a cookie on the table. I know this child well enough that I know she will take the cookie. The child takes the cookie. Does the child have free will or did I force the child to take the cookie? God loves and knows us infinitely more than I know that child. Is it not reasonable that God knows what we will do and still not force our actions? + With love in Christ.

Everyone has misinterpreted the story of creation.Plain and simple!God the father did not create Adam and Eve.The Lord God created Adam from the dust of the ground to til the ground as a SLAVE.Eve in turn was created in turn to also be a servant.To be able to understand this you must read and understand Gen.1,26 thru Gen.2,4 the creation of Original Man,who was given dominion over the fowl of the air, the fish of the sea,the entire earth and everything that moved upon it.He was made in Gods likeness and basically equal to God.And he also was created a Lady God Female given the dominion.They were rulers!!!!!!This is the idiosy of western biblical teaching that ORIGNAL MAN AND the created slave Adam are the same.You will never uderstand creation if you equate THE RULER with his created slave

Okay folks, been a while for me. The Genesis story is a ###MYTH IN THE PROPER SENSE ###, it contians a religious-theological-sociological message but is not to be read as it appears and the science, biology, history and geography are NOT relevant and so must be ignored. "Adamah" is from the Hebrew for "Mud' "Earth" and the breath of God is Life,later to be understood also as Eternal life.. so we are flesh and eternal soul. Humankind therefore hsa the capacity for deciding to be Creature or try to be as gods, all of us are Adam and Eve and have that choice. The snake or dragon is a symbol used in almost every culture with which I am familiar. The Snake sybbolized sexual-ritual activity for fertilizing the Earth in Canaanite culture- on the part of the Kings and ritual females, sacred prostitutes; also in other cultures as in the Temple virgins of the Romans who were not virgins for long! Thus the story is a warning to stay with God's design and allow humans to be human and not fall into Hubris, exaggerated self-inflated conduct which ruins the God-Human and Human-Human relationship. The Hebrews borrowed the Mud-Breath story from their Babylonian ancestors which had Blood and Mud being mixed to make humans to worship the gods.

Okay folks, been a while for me. The Genesis story is a MYTH in the proper sesne, it contians a religious-theological-sociological message but is not to be read as it appears and the science, biology, history and geography are NOT relevant and so must be ignored. "Adamah" is from the Hebrew for "Mud' "Earth" and the breath of God is Life,later to be understood also as Eternal life.. so we are flesh and eternal soul. Humankind therefore hsa the capacity for deciding to be Creature or try to be as gods, all of us are Adam and Eve and have that choice. The snake or dragon is a symbol used in almost every culture with which I am familiar. The Snake sybbolized sexual-ritual activity for fertilizing the Earth in Canaanite culture- on the part the Kings and ritual females, sacred prostitutes ; also in other cultures as inthe Temple virgins of the Romans who were not virgins for long! Thus the story is a warning to stay with God's design and allow humans to be human and not fall into Hubris, exaggerated self-inflated conduct which ruins the God-Human and Human-Human relationship. The Hebrews borrowed the Mud-Breath story from their Babylonian ancestors which had Blood and Mud being mixed to make humans to worship the gods. The Tree is a universal symbol of LIFE used for shelter, fuel, vehicles, vessels, and weapon for hunting and defense etc. It is also a natural a phallic symbol. The Tree of Life is used in Genesis to adapt a common Myth symbol to the overall story of Creaturehood and Divinity, keeping boundaries!

First of all, as I remember, God punished the snake. Second, he had a future plan for humans. When Jesus was crucified, he went to hell to defeat Satan, and thus allowed people to be with god in heaven.

Do not blame God for evil. Women and men choose their path. God often comes and has to clean up the mess (Sodom and Gomorrah) to protect those born in the future so that their evil philosphies and selfish desires will not continue. Usually, I find that people are making the simple more difficult. We can become our own worst enemy. God didn't create evil. God created an angel called Lucifer. All angels were given free-will. However, the angels could readily see God and still 1/3 chose to not love their creator. One of those lead the 3rd down to earth amd he entered into or impersonated a snake which deceived Eve as well as 1/3 of the angels in heaven. Therefore, Lucifer is charged with the original sin. God created Lucifer with a choice. God didn't create Lucifer so evil could be produced. He created Lucifer to love him freely for all eternity. Lucifer made the decision not to love his creator. I'm consistently amazed how people form their information on a few pieces of all the material given. Understand the big picture then make certain your big picture view is correct, then support the big with smaller pieces of information then form the opinions from both the general and specific information given.

God is the original Rube Goldberg.

No, that is not entrapment. God also created wisdom. He also created self control. Adam and Eve had a choice. They made a poor choice. Satan was a rebel. He schemed against God. He misled Adam and Eve. That is not entrapment. They joined in the rebellion by disobeying. God did not make humans out to be robots. For that we should be thankful.

God created everything for Good! It is we who used it for wrong purposes. God created Eden as a garden to enjoy the beauty of the creation! God created the tree of knowledge to know the good and bad-to follow good things and ignore bad things. God created Eve as a life partner for adam- That is love which makes the world go around - thank God he created woman, what would have the world been - without women - THANK YOU LORD! God created a snake as part of his animal kingdom - one of his creation of many reptiles. Even if God allowed the snake to enter the garden - it was eve who dis-obeyed not God. Instead of blaming God lets start trusting in Him!

God created everything for Good! It is we who used it for wrong purposes. God created Eden as a garden to enjoy the beauty of the creation! God created the tree of knowledge to know the good and bad-to follow good things and ignore bad things. God created Eve as a life partner for adam- That is love which makes the world go around - thank God he created woman, what would have the world been - without women - THANK YOU LORD! God created a snake as part of his animal kingdom - one of his creation of many reptiles. Even if God allowed the snake to enter the garden - it was eve who dis-obeyed not God. Instead of blaming God lets start trusting in Him!

If someone can make *choices* then some of the time they will make the *wrong choices*. Free will and bad choices go hand in hand. Therefore if God created Eden and the tree of Knowledge, God already knew that mankind would eat from the tree (or do something wrong) at some point. The concept of original sin is a fallacy. For your enjoyment: http://www.zshare.net/audio/41400142c7fd36/

You are making one of the biggest mistakes when it comes to religion: You have thought for yourself. If you apply this daring reasoning process throughout the bible you will have the same problem. Welcome to the thinking world! It's not as black and white, and certainly not as pretty, but it is reality. BTW for those who can't handle differing opinions: Go ahead and downrate me, all it shows is fear...

Wow, He created man with freedom of choice! If He didn't we would be robots. He gave us everything we needed, WITH instruction. Yes, the serpent did beguile Eve and yes Eve and Adam partook of something they were given clear instruction not to. Its like saying to your child, I have baked these cookies, don't touch them till they are cool BECAUSE you will be burned. Little Johnnie defies and takes a cookie and burns himself. Are you guilty of entrapment because you baked the cookies? God told Adam and Eve clearly, DON'T eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, BECAUSE you will die if you do.. but.. hey.. look, EVERY other tree, fruit and other edibles you can have. I think the question posed is a legitimate argument if God had given no instructions or direction. Entrapment by definition is "the luring of a person into committing a crime". Don't think it fits becuase God never wanted man to fall into sin in the first place. :)

Just been reading all the answers here. I'm a Christian but I do like your question and no, sorry I can't add any light to it. I'll try to rephrase it for those who keep raving on about free will: God knew what we were all going to do in the first place. He knew who would obey. He knew who would disobey. Why didn't he just create the ones that he knew would obey him?

A test of faith, we are tested daily on our faith. God did not make the snake the snake was put there by the fallen angel, yes god allowed him to enter the garden but did not place the snake there. If you look at the lost text on adam and eve it explains it better there. In your search engine just type in the lost books of the bible and it will come up for you !!!

Where were you when God created the heavens and the earth? or Where were you when Satan rebelled and was cast out of Heaven? Jesus said, "Thou shall not tempt the Lord your God." Be careful how you accuse God; you may not like His reply. Read Job

Yes, God is ALL POWERFUL and ALL KNOWING, but WE have had FREE WILL from the beginning,,. Adam , Eve, Satan. Abraham, Moses, etc. did not have to LOVE GOD>>>>

FREEEEEEE WILLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GOD REFUSED TO TAKE AWAY OUR FREE WILL, AND THEREFORE IT WAS EVE'S FAULT THAT SHE ATE THE FRUIT OF THE tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Not at all. It all comes down to choices we make and the ability to adhere to doing what we know is right vs letting someone talk us into doing the opposite.

A good question but there are different types of good questions. This one is limited in the sense that it does not reconise more than one reality and has time as an entity which is linear. There are alternative theories. Multiple Universe theories of reality and time as an entity that has already happened. So what has this to do with the question. Multiple World Theory: Each decision that is made made presents a fork in the universe where the world of that decision continues to evolve and split. We end up with a universe of every possible option existing. Combine it with the theory of time as above and we get, a universe where every possible world exists now limited only by our conscious senses. So: The world as described in the above question exists by our choosing to experience it, a spin on freewill, BUT every other possible world also exists with every other possible outcome. We may have made God guilty of entrapment in this possible world but in all others it is different. The totality of all possible worlds is true reality, and the totality of all other possible Gods in these worlds is the reality of God. We may have chosen to attribute God with guilt in this world but does that make God guilty if that is only one aspect of the totality of God and only something we have attributed to Him?

The Horrible Truth About Religion - Religion is designed to focus the people's attention and energy on a single, unchanging, uncompromising and invisible supreme being who allegedly created an inferior human race just for some extra companionship and love for himself and then supposedly foisted a set of oppressive and in some cases arbitrary rules on them, which if broken would be met with unimaginable punishment. -

I think you may want to exam the idea of God in an abstract sense. (after all, He is infinite and therefore hard to grasp at litterally, so I will rely on metaphor) In a room you have a light. It cast it's beams out into the room. There is nothing but the light. But then something other than the light is introduced. By the very nature of the light beams and the solid object, shadows are cast. The only way to eliminate the shadows is to remove the object from the light, OR to put the light into the object. Does this make sense? If not, I'll elaborate.

JENA, La. -- Here in the woodsy heart of Louisiana, town leaders were looking for a fresh start, a way to erase the recent memory of Jim Crow-like hangman's nooses dangling from a shade tree at the local high school. So they cut the tree down. See how easy it would have been to avoid the garden of Eden incident? Cut the tree of knowledge down if it was so problematic.

.IGNORE THIS - POSTED HERE INSTEAD OF ON COMMENTS - SORRY

Time for a class action lawsuit, methinks...

If your going to question origional sin then you should also consider free will. God did create Eden. He did create the tree of knowledge of good and evil and with that He created free will for all mankind. I'm not entirely sure that God created the snake. However He did create the Devil, of course at the time the Devil was an Angel who 'went wrong' so to speak. Although it seems that God has/had knowledge of what evil is, it does not mean that He created it; I do not believe that God created evil.--of course He must have known of 'evil'-it is obviously His opposite; even if at first there was nobody to oppose Him or use evil against Him. If you know good then you know whats not good, RIGHT? The snake however is a colorful example of how God could not stop the devil from sneaking into the world and and tempting mankind thus courrupting the world- Not GOD. Eve had the oppurnity to CHOOSE for herself-Free Will my friend- whether or not she wanted to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. If not Eve eventually sometime somewhere someone would have messed it up, and give into temptation. Entrapment? no-its choice-- Besides- everything ive said aside- if God wanted to purposely entrap humankind why did He send His Son down to die for the sins of the world- He wants to save us not condemn us! If you look to God to blame Him for YOUR sins...well thats the work of the Devil!...and who now do you have to forgive you and save you from these sins?

Yup! To me, it's just a story, but still a story of entrapment LOL

I think that even though God created the circumstance, he still gave Adam and Eve the ability to make choices. They made the choice and they chose to go for it. That was their test, they failed. boo hoo.

Yes, totally agree. Excellent! :)

No, God is not guilty and not supposed to be guilty for any reason. You keep things for your children which may be good or bad. but u instruct ur children not to touch this, or that. That doesn't mean we r tempting our children to do sin. but we expect them to be obedient to what we say. God did the same thing, God already had forbidden man to eat the trees of knowledge. Do you think Adam didn't have any fruit in the Garden. He had everything , one small thing god asked them not to eat. If they cannot be obedient, its not God to be guilty but man, having all the luxurious things he went for small thing and he sinned. God is good he will remain good always. God created everything for a good purpose but expected obedience from adam, and eve. Snake was created by god, but devil entered into snake and deceived eve. God knew man is going to fall into sin, but he had wonderful plan to destroy devil and restore man back to him. This restoration is forever and eternal. We cannot understand God's wisdom and his plan, we are creatures and not creator . But whatever he does it is good it will be good, it remains Good for eternity.

Magenta Studios you are my hero. oh, and i agree...

Not necessarily, churba, just a stranger to the truth.

God is either good...or God is not good obviously we have two totally divergent opinions here. if, God is good, then we believe that He has our best interests at heart. and therefore, everything He did or did not do...everything He is responsible for and not responsible for... work out for both His glory and our good. God is either telling the truth or He is a liar. if, God is good and telling the truth and can do whatever and whenever, anything and everything , anytime and everytime, then He can do all the contradictory things HE says. if , you believe God is not really good, or is a liar, or is evil or doesnt exist or cant do everything He says He can.. you will be bitter, doubtful, derisive and unfullfilled, in understanding these things. in the actors world of the script... a guilty person... is guilty...any other way of looking at it is absurd....magentas analogies are horrible. nobody reads a book or watches a movie and says, well they were just acting. they are immersed in the new world of the characters and events as they unfold. and yes , if an author writes someone guilty, guess what, the author can also execute them. whos to stop him.. but unfortunately, for you, God does not write in evil or sin..He allows it and can write in an infinite enough variables to over come the twists and turns of the foibles of mankind. just as a mouse in a maze doesnt know that he is being manipulated by the changing of the course, actively, as he goes thru it, God changes the maze of our lives to ultimately direct us to the exit...even when we twist and turn in different and wrong directions in the maze...God can open and close doors to slowly force us, without our knowledge, to go forward and no longer back. yet allows free will and wrong Avatar dr james Apr, 15 2008 at 01:53 PM [Edit] magenta is the only one who is self contradictory...i can build a maze for a mouse and slowly force him to make right decisions even against his will to make mistakes and wrong turns; without the mouse knowing im helping him overcome his mistakes. if God says that on tuesday you will be in cincinatti , guess what...no matter what you do , n matter how hard you resist, no matter how evil or good you are, in tuesday you will be in cincinatti at a certain time and place... all other factors are free will... this can be reduced... to tomorrow... to today... to this hour... to this minute ... to this second...for everyone... we can all do what we want...but ultimately if God wants you to do something good...you will... and at His timing and at His desired place and at His desired choosing...not tyou nor the mouse nor the ant... if this concept is to difficult for you... then you are already a puppet of your own mind its quite simple

drjames: Your listed bio, your misspellings and your Texas ranching, Gulf War experiences, and your varied career in other professional fields, your semi-retirement to Cyprus, the sopohomoric comments you make, with no serious scholarship, the absence of the biblical writing you said you have on here, the short amount of time on this site, indicate to me that you are a fake. Regardless, serious scholarship on real topics with you and also sean and otter on their posts related to this subject and the history of the Christian Church(and the dcecidedly un-Christian Mormon sect) in general is not an option.

Hell, in a few weeks this thread will be a year old!

Basically, God fucked up. If you believe Genesis to be truth. Or, if you trust it to be a story told by humans, to relate what they believed to be the beginning of humanity, then it just means we fucked up.

If you were all alone and wanted company and had the power to create your own friends...wouldn't you want them to like you because they really do; or make them that way and know that their love for you was not real but by your control? Rethinking about this idea, I think God loves you very much and would appeciate it if you loved Him back eaqually.

Jesus was also born with the same natural curiosity, and was tempted by the "serpent" but he overcame the temptation instead of falling into the "trap."

The Bible says Lucifer speaking through the snake convinced Eve to sin against God's law. Lucifer was created creature by God. God gave him the free will to choose selfish ways. If God created all his creatures with no free will to disobey him then he would be an unfair God. We would be "robots" controlled "puppets". Lucifer choose on his own willful mindset that he could be a better God. He sought to overthrow the throne of God to control the other creatures. If God destroyed Lucifer, then he would be unfair and the other created beings would have feared God and said maybe Lucifer was right. If Eve obeyed her husband and not left his side, she would not have wandered off on her own. (two are better to combat temptations). If Eve fled the snake and forbidden fruit, she would not have questioned God. If Eve would not have eaten the fruit, then she would not have experienced knowledge of evil and death. If Adam would not have eaten fruit, he would have lost his wife, but God would have given him a new wife. If sin didn't enter human race through Adam and Eve, sinful, selfish, evil, and death would not been experienced. If Adam and Eve obeyed God, then God would have taken the tree of knowledge of good and evil out of garden with Satan who was confined to the tree. Then the couple would have regenerated entire race of perfect peace. The fact that the couple did not taste death right away, proves that God is long-suffering. He gives the opportunity for one to ask forgiveness and to be reunited into his family. Love for God gives us desire to not sin against his laws. This is what God is trying to do, bring humanity back to Eden experience before sin entered. Revelation chapters 20-End. If you gave your 3 year old a sharp knife and told him to run as fast as he could, are you to blame for the child's injuries? The child does not know the dangers of running with a sharp knife in hand. He was never told to never run with sharp object because he could fall and jab himself, maybe kill himself. Adam and Eve were told God's rule about the tree in question and was told the consequences of disobeying God. They willfully disobeyed God and suffered the death penalty. But the story does not end there. Because the same God whom sentenced Adam and Eve the death penalty of eternal death and separation from God, came down to earth as a babe to be crucified upon a tree for that eternal death penalty, so that all humanity from Adam to last can come back to experience Eden and to live forever in God's presence. God will end this issue once for good. Read about it in Rev. chapters 20-End. Sin is what entraps us to loose our relationship with God and eternal perfect peace. I suppose you would like to say, "Now that's not fair, a God whom loves us just as whom we are, just as where we are, just as in condition we are, but loves us too much to leave us just as whom we are, just as where we are, just as in condition we are." Thoughts from a Pastor's pen.

No... The only thing God is actually guilty of, is giving man freedom of choice. If you ask me, He should have though about that one for awhile.

Sorry for my English… I am a foreigner. God has created man and woman with freedom of choice otherwise it would not be a human. Taking from that tree was her choice and so was Adam’s. I believe Bible has a deeper meaning more than a human mind can comprehend but it was written in elementary way so our mind could take it by faith, it is a gift from Lord to be able to understand the meaning of it. Would you be able to explain to a savage what the mobile phone is, or Internet? It would have been an entrapment if Lord did warn them not to take from that tree. Devil is there for a purpose a part of him lives in our own minds called sin it pushes us to do evil it is our choice to choose harmony and peace or destruction. In the end God will sort out his sheep from the goats to serve and be with Him for eternity. Freedom of choice is the engine on which American society functions. It is not yours to give to the world it was there at creation. And now it is your choice to accept Lord Jesus as your personal savior or spend an eternity in Hell. Life is too short, make up your mind !!! Sergiu from R. Moldova. Chserg7@europe.com

Sorry for my English… I am a foreigner. God has created man and woman with freedom of choice otherwise it would not be a human. Taking from that tree was her choice and so was Adam’s. I believe Bible has a deeper meaning more than a human mind can comprehend but it was written in elementary way so our mind could take it by faith, it is a gift from Lord to be able to understand the meaning of it. Would you be able to explain to a savage what the mobile phone is, or Internet? It would have been an entrapment if Lord did warn them not to take from that tree. Devil is there for a purpose a part of him lives in our own minds called sin it pushes us to do evil it is our choice to choose harmony and peace or destruction. In the end God will sort out his sheep from the goats to serve and be with Him for eternity. Freedom of choice is the engine on which American society functions. It is not yours to give to the world it was there at creation. And now it is your choice to accept Lord Jesus as your personal savior or spend an eternity in Hell. Life is too short, make up your mind !!! Sergiu from R. Moldova. Chserg7@europe.com

God also said not to eat the fruit and we had the free will to disobey or not.

it's no bodies' fault because that story is just a metaphorical story that did NOT happen! it might have happened metaphorically!! God exist but not in the way people imagine him!!

my answer is not so much to this question but a question attached to this one. if all man came form adam and eve, who where in the garden of eden then who made the people of enoch in which adam and eve found after they where kicked out of eden

God created men with free will, that means we have the choice to follow Him or not. Had God not allowed the opportunity for man to chose wrongly, then how could we choose to love him. We had to have a choice, so that we could choose to follow Him or choose not to. Really it is the ultimate in fair play. How could men be asked to love God if we have no choice?

Free will. God had to give mankind the power to choose their own destiny, becase that's what God's about. Its like in Bruce Almighty, the bit when Bruce is trying to make Grace love him again, outside the play school. He cant make her love him again, its her choice to do so. In the same way, God can't demand our love or our faithfulness, its up to us to choose to live like that... but Eve just choose and apple. Sucks.

I wish I hadn't answered this question. Not because of any change in my opinion, I just get sick of these enormous threads. Seriously, An enormous word count doesn't mean that you are right, just that you have far too much time on your hands.

God made us free moral agents.He made us able, in our own minds to determine what we wanted. He did that so that we could worship Him in freedom of spirit. He also gave warning to Adam and Eve, that they should not eat of the tree which was in the midst of the garden. If I may illustrate. Down the road there are bars. I have to get to those bars via some sort of transportation. The government said that those bars could operate. The government paved the roads for me to get to and from the bars. The government issued me a liscence to drive. If I, therfore, drink at that bar and drive while intoxicated it is the governments fault and NONE of my own, right? well, of course not. We are intelligent beings. We can think and make rational decisions on our own. When Eve decided to listen to the serpent (who was not at that time a snake, read your Bible) and bring death upon herself. Adam chose to partake and brought death upon all mankind. The choices we make affect us. We might just have to learn to deal with that.

No, because you cannot sue a fictional character for a fictional crime.

No He most definately is not! God did not disobey the direct command not to eat the fruit, mankind did. Of course God knew they would, He gave them the tree in order to enable them to choose obedience or disobedience they chose disobedience. It always amazes me that man wants to point the finger at anybody but themselves for the messes that are man-made!

Freewill. If there was never a temptation we would never have a choice. That snake was the woman that god made with adam. her name is Lilith, you can look into by typing Lilith into google. Or you can just read your bible, the parts of the creation. This is Genesis 1.27 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. This is Genesis 2.22 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [i] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. There was also a man made from Lilith named Samael. Before these interpretations of Lilith, she was known as the guardian of women and children. Just about the same time they stopped worshiping women and women were seen as superior to men, lilith is then described as a demon who has sex with men in their dreams.

God allowed the snake to enter? Lucifer fell to earth, and somehow ended up in Eden, and made hismelf a snake and LIED about the tree of knowledge to Adam and Eve, but they still rebeled against God.

It was God´s experiment to see if they could be sincere toward Him, just as now; God looks for sincerity from us, and not lip-service. Who is willing to deny their own will, and submit to His?

ok before your question even starts... if god crated mankind knowing all the sins we were ever going to commit in our finite lives, and how many souls he would be infinately punishing for our finite sins then didnt he knowlingly create all future suffering? isnt he to blame for everything ever? it doesnt matter if he gave us free will. despite our free will we can never surprise god. he knew right from the beginning what we were going to do.

I was reading many of the comments and answers and I see so vividly how ignorant people are. They stand there scoffing at an invisible being, asking how such a thing is possible. But do they ever to sit and think of a blind man. He can not see his surroundings, does that mean we do not exist though we clearly see him? They say how is it possible that there is an omniscient being out there, it is impossible and foolish of Him to know our sins before they came into being and still sends us to the fiery depths because of them. I say have you ever thought that just because he knows them doesn't mean he chose them. We are entitle to free will, open-choices, whatever we desire. Just because the outcome is known, such as a movie we've seen repeatedly, we know how the demise and ending concludes, yet we can not and DO NOT interfere with them, there is nothing we can do. So in "their" (those who say God can not see everything) eyes, we are not real because we know what will happen in movies =P

No, he isn't. But you are. If you really wanted the truth, you wouldn't be on a site like this attempting to draw people into silly debates which you have already decided the answer to.

Well to answer one of the questions, God is not a liar. God said that Adam and Eve would die if they ate from the Tree Of Knowledge. People do die. God's plan was probably for us to live forever in bliss with Him in the garden. And even if his plan wasn't for us to physically live on Earth forever, His plan was for us to live eternally with Him. People who dont believe in God do die, they go to Hell for an eternal death. Like some of the other people said on this question, God didn't want to make robots, but people with free will. He didn't entrap us, He tried to make us free, but our own desire to rebel and our greediness for control is how we got entrapped. It was our own fault.

No, it is not entrapment. It is God creating free will.

If he didn't create us as a Free Moral Agent and able to make our own judgments, then he would have created a bunch of robots.

Reading other wrong answers will not change the truth. Just a waste of time.

Because God also created Eve with a pure, holy nature, capable of choosing righteousness. He also made the consequences of sin perfectly clear to her. It was not Eve's curiosity that got the better of her: it was sin. In her pride, she wanted to be like God who had made her. God told her not to touch that tree: not because there was something wrong with it, but because as Creator and Lord of the world He had the right to set whatever laws He willed; the tree was a symbol to Adam and Eve that although they had an exalted place as stewards of creation, they were still under the authority of God. Eve's first sin was in listening to the serpent at all. It was not curiosity: it was failure to stand up for her friend, God, when He was being slandered. Her friend had not only given her life, but also everything she needed to enjoy that life. Her next sin was in failing to accurately state the law God had given. She exaggerated His restrictions. Then, she went to look at the fruit: to determine in her own wisdom what was wrong with it. You can see her problem right there. Her reasoning appears to have been, "There must be something dangerous about the fruit, because otherwise God has no right to tell me I can't have it." Her reasoning should have been, "God is my Lord and Creator, as well as my friend; He has every right to set whatever rules or laws He wills, and I can trust that since He is righteous, any rules or laws He does set will be right." Innocent curiosity was not a factor, which is precisely why Eve and Adam immediately felt guilt.

First, you have to believe the premise that God created man a little lower than the angels with the ability to choose eternal life. He has to then create an atmosphere where his creation believes him at his word. The only way to do this is to allow them the ability to come to the understanding that what he says is absolute truth. The garden played out perfectly. He knew how it would end. He knows how it ends. We live in the shadow of death purposefully. We are currently in that valley. Much like a parent has to prove that their word is truth. God is proving daily that what he says will happen will happen. We are not trapped. Even though none of us get out alive, thank goodness this is not about death but eternal life.

yes! that and so much more. please indulge me while i veer off course a bit: most of the women in the bible don't have names. anybody know the name of lot's wife? it tells you a little about what the men who wrote the bible thought of women. from the beginning, woman is held responsible for the downfall of humanity. in my view, eve's guilty of nothing more than curiosity, aka a thirst for knowledge. apparently, this is only an undesirable trait when possessed by a woman. the serpent, often identified as satan by christians, is just a pawn. he's punished by god along w/a&e. also, god lied to them (he didn't speak to eve until he got pissed off). it was the serpent who told them the truth. in the bible, far more evil and cruelty are exhibited by god than satan. just a few thoughts to ponder.

IF================== IF PEOPLE DID'NT EXIST= GOD WOULD'NT EXIST, BECAUSE THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS WITHIN EACH OF US. WHAT YOU ARE ASKING COMES FROM A COMIC BOOK=FALSE BOOK WRITTEN FROM THE ORIGINAL BY PEOPLE THAT WANT OTHERS TO REGARD THEM AS GREAT. A BOOK FOR RELIGIONS TO CONTROL YOU, SO THEY CAN RAPE AND MOLEST YOUR CHILDREN. ALSO STOP AND THINK IN THE 1960'S, 70'S THEIR WERE ANY QUEERS OR LESBIANS, NOW THEIR ARE AND THEY WANT TO BE MARRIED==SAME SEXES. COULD ONLY COME FROM RELIGIONS. LIKE CATHOLIC CHURCHES SLAP THEIR WRISTS AND SEND THEM TO NEW CHURCHES TO TRY AGAIN. LATEST MOLESTING LAST MONTH. SO STOP BELIEVING IN FALSE COMIC BOOKS.