ANSWERS: 3
  • Frankly, I was not going to ask this question, but it is getting the best of my curiosity. I talked to my gf about it, but since she started it, I am getting second (and third and fourth) opinion(s). Happy part of the story, for me at least, is last night I was involved with a threesome with my gf and a friend of hers. The gal - Michelle (not her real name) - is going through a divorce and has been having a rough time. We met her at a party and well... Anyhow, I digress. This morning my gf and I were talking and she said to me in passing - in a nice way - "Sweetheart, you should have paid a little more attention to Michelle." Okay, it had been a while since my gf and I had done anything like this, so being generous, maybe I was out of practice. However, beyond being confused about having my gf tell me that I should have spent more time with the other girl, I did what I thought were all the right things. I had sex with both of them, etc. So, is there some etiquette of which I am not aware here - or at least that I may have forgotten? (I ask this half jokingly - but only half.) I remember another person on this site - the redoubtable and highly insightful "Officegirl" - saying that for her having sex with another woman was partly a matter of social bonding. (Not her exact words, but the jist of it.) In fact, one thing MY gf said to me when we were talking was that as much as anything it was that she wanted her friend to feel better after going through such a hard time. (Her divorce has been especially rough.) Was this about that? My gf, much as I love her, can sometimes throw me a curve ball - though grant I had fun last night at any rate - and this is one of those times. As I said, I was not going to ask this one - a bit too personal even for me - but my curiosity has the best of me. Ladies, your insights would be appreciated.
    • officegirl
      If a couple invites a third person then she is your guest and the rules of hospitality dictate that you make it primarily, or first, about her - her comfort and her enjoyment. So - lots of FP, which may or may not bring her to orgasm, then intercourse to orgasm for her, if possible. Or more if she is so equipped and inclined. After all you can be with your gf just the two of you almost everyday. But the point of a threesome is the mutual enjoyment of all of you but focusing on your guest. So your guest comes first. Same sex activity is a no-no unless your guest is OK with it. But most women, even if they are not OK with same sex activity, will enjoy being touched and stroked or kissed around her body, breasts, nipples, neck, thighs, tummy, having her hair stroked and played with by another woman because it makes us feel good and helps stimulate us. Even if she is uncomfortable with direct sexual touching or oral from another woman. If you know your guest enjoys swinging-type activities most likely she will be up for or OK with same-sex activity. More sensitive friends who come to orgasm quickly have told me they wanted it to last longer so wished their had been lots more FP before intercourse. Someone who is more nervous or uncomfortable in such situations might require much more time and effort to orgasm even with the couple collectively working on her. From your posts sounds like your gf thinks so much of you she enjoys sharing you with some of her friends. And she enjoys watching them enjoy you or you enjoying them. I will add that if the person you invite likes you or has a crush on you or is attracted to you then it should be more just you and her, because that would be why she is there, even if it means going off just the two of you into the back bedroom for a while. Of course if your guest is a man it would be different - first and foremost he gets to do what he wants (within reason and our comfort) with your gf and after that the two of you would take turns or do her two-on-one. Most men are not comfortable with any guy/guy touching let alone same sex activity. You have posted about your experience with one who was not only comfortable but sought it so you are ahead of me in that kid of experience. I have been with men who were supposed to be "gay" but in the context of our group activities the focus was on me so behaved just like any men. Oh just call me "retractable" and "highly delightful" but please reread my very personal essay or explanation of girl/girl as I think you might have misunderstood. Do you think I could be the Abby Van Buren of the bedroom? How about the Letitia Baldidge? And what was the name of that advice author who took her own life? Amy Vanderbilt?
    • dorat
      Thanks. You could be the Emily Post of the bedroom. I had no idea that there was this elaborate etiquette involved. For that matter, I am not sure my gf did either. (By the way, will stay away from authors who committed suicide. I sense you are made of sterner stuff than that.) Oh, as regards your essay, I did try to track it down when I wrote my initial question as I could not remember quite what you said. However, my gf and I are back to the regular routine, with her able to be stay at home mommy while she works from the house. That means that I am back to my regular work routine which means that I don't have quite the time to spend on the site. (Not unless I want to ignore my gf and my kids, that is,) So I had less time to look and didn't find it. I digress, however. As to your main point, I take what you are saying about the "guest." However, in this case I am not even sure that applies. What happened is that we met my gfd's friend at a party. She had gotten to the party by Metro (subway) and so we offered, when we left, to take her back to her apartment since we drove. She had us in and we had a couple of drinks and we started talking about her divorce, (As an aside, this has NOT been a pleasant divorce. Luckily, no kids are involved.) Almost in passing, my gfd's friend mentioned that she had not had sex in two years. (Which caught me off guard.) Things sort of went from there, but if anything, it was my gf and her friend making me the guest. Which is quite flattering, when you think about it. (Joking, sort of.) So I am not sure who the guest was. (By the way, there is NO WAY I would ever suggest a threesome with my gf and another woman spur of the moment. The threesomes we have done in the past - probably 6 or 7 including this one all totaled - were always either something we talked about ahead of time or that my gf sort of took the lead on. I would not feel comfortable putting my gf in a situation where she might think I was just trying to have sex with another woman. I do enjoy watching my gf have sex with another woman, and I also enjoy sex with other women, but as I am sure you know, in those situations emotions are intense and it is easy for wires to get crossed. My own view is that you communicate first with the woman you love.) Even in the situation where I was having sex with another man, it sort of came together in an odd way. He met me, thought I was hot, mentioned it to my gf who gets turned on by gay sex, and she approached me about it. His only stipulation was that he and I sometimes be allowed to have sex just the two of us guys. My gf agreed, partly I think because she figured that since I was not gay, there was no real chance of it becoming a more intimate relationship. (Even then, that said, he and I did become quite close. Something I just did not expect. In fact, my gf and I ended it after she went out of town for her trade association's annual meeting. He asked me if he could spend that week with me, I asked my gf and she agreed. (He and I both had to work, so it wasn't like we spent all week just having sex. However, we did things together in the evenings and too one day off and we did have sex. When my gf got back, she said that she thought that maybe her friend was getting too attached and the whole thing was getting "sticky," so we gently ended it. Sorry for the long digression - yet again. (I do that, and not being able to write in paragraphs only makes it worse and harder to follow.) Anyhow, this past weekend my gf had sex with her friend and with me, and I had sex with her friend, So it was a bit of everything. Whether her friend had a crush on me, I just don't know. This was not like the situation with my gfd's gay colleague. (CONTINUED BELOW...)
    • dorat
      (By the way, you wrote: "From your posts sounds like your gf thinks so much of you she enjoys sharing you with some of her friends. And she enjoys watching them enjoy you or you enjoying them." Don't know if that is true - or if she was just trying to help her friend. Works for me, and I just wanted you to know that from here on that is my new story and I am sticking with it. Sure makes me look hot. Yes, I said that with a smile, though actually, by a spooky coincidence, my gf told me one time that she likes showing other women what she has. That's not quite the same thing, and I always took that as a joke - but I like thinking that you are right. It's an ego boost to think that the woman you love thinks that you are so great that she wants to give other women the experience of sex with me. I'm feeling ten feel tall already - or part of me is, at any rate. ) Anyhow, thanks for your really great insights on all of this. Gotta run, now, and I wish I had more time to write, but you gave me some tremendous insights. The only other thing I can add was that I really did try to be even handed, so to speak. When you throw in that it takes a man a while to recover - and I had sex with my gf first that night - I was as "chivalrous" as I could be, For what it is worth, my gfd's friend is an attractive woman and there was something about the fact that she seemed so vulnerable and lonely that appealed to me. It wasn't "pity sex" - I did not feel that way at all. Rather her vulnerability made me feel sort of protective of her and compassionate. It was good sex, as far as I was concerned, and so far as I know she enjoyed it. It was quite a weekend and who knew it would give all this to chew on. My gf says that she was trying to make sure we all had a good time. I have no reason to doubt her, I just feel - and it is more feeling than thought - that she was more just trying to be considerate toward a friend she thought was in pain. I don't know, but as always, thanks to you for adding another dimension to the conversation.
    • officegirl
      Please excuse me dorat. When you asked about etiquette I understood formal etiquette. Which I grew up with then rebelled against and later came to appreciate and be interested.in. The purpose of formal etiquette is smooth and effective and untroubled social interaction where everyone can feel respected. Later I found swingers and others living a more sexually free llifestyle had their own etiquette - not all of which I agreed with. I don't consider myself a "swinger" in the more formal sense because I don't share some of their ideas about etiquette which I find stem from a too negative point of view. If your evening was about your friend that would be one thing, if about you another. But when those situations just arise and are not planned you just need to go with the flow and whatever happens happens. Which sometimes can be great, other times not so great. Seems your gf perceived somehow that her friend would have enjoyed more attention from you or more time with you. Its just that many couples use such situations primarily to strengthen their own bond at the expense of their guest or the other person which I don't think is right from an etiquette point of view. I certainly have much less experience of threes while in a committed relationship where that commitment needs to be preserved - I was more the invitee or "other" woman. I used to share my boyfriends with my "gay" female friends who were interested and I guess I felt pretty safe with that because though they enjoyed men they considered themselves "gay, "lesbian" or "woman-oriented". Once when they saw one another behind my back I became furious. Though I had for months been sometimes seeing other men behind his back. I think it is great to have a life where you don't have to depend upon AB!
    • dorat
      Not at all, Officegirl, you answered the question exactly as I intended it - and it was a very useful answer. The truth is that you don't often think of manners as part of sex because, typically, the person you are having sex with is someone you know and love and you just observe that etiquette almost by habit. I had been in threesomes before, but I had never thought of it that way. It begs the question: Were there other times when I was not as attentive to the other woman, and it was just my gf didn't say anything to me? After all, this threesome happened much later in our relationship - when we trust each other a bit more and are not afraid of scaring each other off. In earlier threesomes, my gf may just not have felt as comfortable saying anything. (I'd ask my gf, but after this many years I doubt she would necessarily remember.) By the way, something you said got me to thinking. I had sex with my gf first. (We were initially all kissing and rubbing each other, and I actually went down on "Michelle" first. That said, I only have one penis...) Do you think it would have made a difference if I had sex with "Michelle" first? Would it have mattered? At any rate, you made some excellent points. In this case we just went with the flow, but I may have bobbled the ball a little. By the way, for what it is worth, on matters of etiquette, manners and courtesy, my gf and I are 100% with you. We are VERY old fashioned when it comes to manners. The kids are taught to say "please" and "thank you." When they get gifts we make them write "thank you notes." (Grant that at ages 7, 6, and 4 the notes are not especially well written - or legible for that matter. However, at their ages it is a matter of getting them in the habit - and for the recipient it is the thought that counts, we hope.) One last thing, I really owe you big time. I asked my gf about what you wrote: "From your posts sounds like your gf thinks so much of you she enjoys sharing you with some of her friends. And she enjoys watching them enjoy you or you enjoying them." She said, in so many words, that you were right. Frankly I could have cried. My gf said that she didn't like to say it to me in quite that way because she didn't want me to think that she thought of me as little better than a piece of meat to be passed around. (I winked at her and told her that I was okay with being a piece of meat to be shared with other women. She rolled her eyes like she does, It is so cute when she does that.) She also said that she was reluctant to say it because it gave her mixed feelings. She didn't want to weaken the bond between us. Yet she is proud of me and she does not mind when other women get to enjoy me and what I have to offer as a man. She also said that she recognized that I have sexual needs too. I told her that I never need anyone but her,sexually and otherwise, but still, it was one of the sweetest things she has ever told me. Honestly, I could have cried. I love her so much. Yeah it flatters my male ego a bit too, but to have your s/o tell you that she is proud of you and so proud that some part of her wants to share that with other women gives me just an incredible feeling. Anyhow, I would not ordinarily go that deep into a private conversation that I had with my gf, but in this case, you made an observation that resonated with us and even helped my gf and I deepen our love a little bit more. YOU are very good at that - and I wanted to thank you and compliment you. Cheers!
    • officegirl
      Thank you. Haha that reminds me of a recent question I answered about our being "used for sex". To which I answered that, most of the time, I want to be "used for sex". Though, of course, that does not a lasting relationship make. But I would not over-think it dorat. Its just guys and girls together. Certainly not bad form to start bringing her off with oral and perhaps in that situation you felt your gf needed reassuring which was why entered her first. I don't know - yes objectively I think you should have been with her first but I am speaking from etiquette and I was not there with you all! In the same situation (if that would even be possible) I would insist my husband have sex with her first but I don't think I have ever even mentioned that to him because he has more the same take on etiquette and what is proper and fitting as I do. And he is usually happy and eager to start with her (though he would never admit that) and continues with her until she comes once or more (sometimes with my assistance) before he starts with me and so goes between us bringing us off alternately two or three times before he finishes in our guest. Of course sometimes it does not work exactly like that Once we invited another couple and the man I had been with before I met Gerry (and sometimes do still see on occasion) and his date was lots younger and was not sure she wanted to participate so started just watching . So they both worked on me until she felt she was ready to be with them (I remember her exact words "That's so hot!"). Anyway both of you confirm what I have always thought: that even loving our husband or s/o as much as we possibly can we still naturally desire and sometimes seek activity with others. Perhaps because of the novelty or because others amplify and bring out different parts of ourselves. So I think - dishonest to deny that. But then if that is so we have to alter our thinking to be able to effectively accommodate that and still be able to enjoy and preserve a strong primary relationship. Which swingers have found certain ways to do, and which I have tried to do in my own ways, and which you and your gf are doing. Honestly you are so gushy with each other its almost embarrassing! But I can also envy the two of you your gushiness as well. Because I was never able to enjoy as committed a relationship until my marriage in 2011 and that, at least in my head, was a little uncertain for the first year or so until I finally realized how committed we had grown to one another. You owe me nothing. Thank you for sharing.
    • dorat
      Sorry, I guess we do tend to sound like two love sick teenagers - and I imagine that can get tiresome to hear. Still, I just can't imagine my life without her. Anyhow, I agree that is natural for us to want sex with other people - but I also agree that I would never do anything that would undermine the relationship I have with the woman I love so much - as you with your husband. As far as being used for sex - it frankly turns me on and to find that my gf in a way wants me to be used for sex because she is so proud of me is, I am almost embarrassed to say, both an incredible ego boost and in a way says something about how much we love each other. It means a lot. Thanks again. P.S. Next time - if there is one - I will be more considerate of the other woman. For what it is worth, I did finish with the other gal. I know, I know...overthinking, overthinking.
  • As a single woman I used to be invited to couples homes and what used to get me were those where the husband just mostly wanted to see his wife with another woman. So he would make pretty short work of me and then I would be expected to bring her off just by myself which I would try to do because it was expected of me but, you know, sort of not what I signed up for. So yes I felt left out! And yes no question with other ladies the men would go for the pretty ones and sometimes if I wanted anything for myself I would have to be more forward and take someone's hand and lead him to a corner or a bedroom. Everyone is supposed to have a good time but sometimes you have to sort of see to it that you ( or your guests) do.
    • dorat
      Thanks. See my looooooonnnngggg comment above. Other than that, though, based on what you wrote here, I truly hope that I did not make my gfd's friend feel that way. It's not how I felt at all. My gf did not talk to her friend today - at least she has not mentioned it - but I'll try to find out. Not sure what I could do about it if I did make her feel left out, but that is certainly not something I wanted her to feel. Thanks for your insight. By the by, I bet those guys didn't realize what they were missing with you. Cheers!
  • No, I am bi so I experience both the male and female in a couple equally. I find their are less instances of jealousy if both girls are Bi and play with each other as well. For a threesome to work properly everyone had to be in to everyone, otherwise some one ends up getting the short end of the stick. Guys love the girl on girl show and helps getting things started or some times finishing things up when the guy gets tired. As for your gf, maybe she just wanted you to pay a little more attention to her friends since her friend has you only for the night and you have your gf all the time. As long as everyone got off and had a positive experience then you really don't have anything to worry about.
    • dorat
      Thanks Niki. Officegirl has a point that I tend to overthink. It is just that my gfd's remark came a little out of left field. However, you called it right. When I asked my gf about it again - after the exchange above with Officegirl - she did what she usually does and smiled at me, rolled her eyes, patted me on the cheek, gave me a peck on the cheek, told me I was sweet to worry about it but that I was worrying about nothing. She had just thought that maybe the two of us had been a little too much into each other. She talked to her friend, though, and she said that she had a great time. In fact, she said she hoped we could do it again. To which my gf tells me that she offered her friend some "one on one" time with me. Well, that enlarged my ego and at least one bodily organ. This is all in the "pinch me and tell me it's for real" category. (Actually, I should not joke about this. The gal in question is going through a miserable divorce. She had told my gf that having sex made her feel wanted again, which frankly touched both of us. My gf and I are pretty easy going about such things and she thought some time with me might help her friend. We'll see what happens.) Anyhow, I digress. Thanks for your insights and your good advice. I admit that a lot of this I have discussed with my gf, but I really do appreciate the extra opinions.
    • Beach_Niki
      No problem. Glad things are working out, however if I was you I would not have one on one time. Your gf may be ok with it now, but she may change her mind down the road and it could end up ruining the relationship. Trust me, I've seen it.
    • dorat
      Well, as I say, we'll play it by ear. For what it is worth - and although it is not quite the same thing - there were a few times back in the day when as part of a threesome one of us would for a time go off with just one partner. I won't even pretend that as a guy I don't get that pang of jealousy. As a man, I want to be the only one who pleases my gf - and she has said the same with me. However, we trust and love each other and our golden rule was no surprises. We both realize that we have needs and that if we love each other we need to control our emotions and think of the other person. As we have gotten older - and as we have become parents - we don't really go crazy so much anymore. We just love being with each other. Still, there is that animal side in all of us and we try to allow for that. In this case, her friend is so lonely that she felt that it might help her. (I joked with my gf that she is putting me out to stud.) At a minimum, there may be another threesome or two in our future - but she is a sweet gal and having been there at one really bad point in my life, I get that sense of loneliness and I think my gf does too. No matter, you give good advice and we will take it a step at a time. As for now, though, I have a long Valentine's Day weekend coming up with just my gf - it just so happens that we moved into together ten years ago around Valentine's Day so we treat it as our anniversary and always make plans - and I have to learn how to fit into women's underwear. It's been quite a month. Great hearing from you.
    • Beach_Niki
      How was your VD? What did th gf get you?
    • dorat
      Hi Nikki - Don't know in what order you read this. If you check out my more recent response, you'll get the update. In brief, though, we had a great weekend. This year we stayed at the Hotel Washington. (Some years we go to Annapolis or the Bay. Some years to the city.) On Friday we just ate dinner at the hotel and went out bar hopping - but oldsters that we are I think we were in bed by midnight. On Saturday, during the day, we went counterintuitively back to the burbs and just walked Great Falls park - which is a park where the Potomac River goes into a 40 foot drop. Quite beautiful. It was a bit nippy, but it gave me an excuse to wrap my arms around her and keep her all snuggy warm. (Okay, I am getting a bit sappy. Just tell me when you have had your fill of the lovesick teenager thing. I'll shut up, I promise.) That night we did our traditional coat and tie dress up dinner at a restaurant called 1789 - because my says that my mother dresses me nice - and then we went to the Kennedy Center and saw "Shear Madness" - which we've seen before, but enjoy. When we got back to the hotel we opened our gifts to each other and made a nice evening of it. Very romantic and all. Sunday we stayed in bed till almost 1, and did "stuff" and then had brunch and since the weather was lousy and we really could not do any outdoor stuff, we went to the African-American museum and went to dinner early at another restaurant called Old Ebbit Grille. Sunday night I surprised her by having the hotel staff put lit candles in the bathroom and when we got back I ran Dawn a hot bath and... well...you get the idea. Today we had to check out by noon, so we stayed in the room till 9 and then just packed, had breakfast and left. As far as the gifts, she took you ladies quite seriously. thanks to the love of my life, every Valentine's Day I get new underwear ranging from the practical to the sexy, such that I have a claim to have the world's largest underwear collection. Every style you can imagine. One year I even got - not making this up - underoos for men. Superman, Batman, Spiderman. I got'em all. Suffice to say, the kids love it when I wear them. They think I'm a superhero. It should be that easy. Hey. Wearing my Spiderman briefs around the house has got to be easier than being bitten by a radioactive spider, no? Anyhow, I digress. So this year I got some "choo-choo" pattern briefs - and quite a bit of panties, bras, and the like. (Yes, I think she has a few future evenings planned.) Anyhow, she also got me a new watch, a couple of shirts and a massage unit that I can put on the chair in my home office that is supposed to massage your back. For her, I got her a diamond pendant - so I am not as cheap as I look. We will also get each other a little something for Valentine's Day itself. (Usually I get her flowers, while she makes a nice dinner and gets something for me and each of the kids.) So that is the summary. It was a great weekend!! By the way, we are supposed to see her friend a week from this Saturday. Not sure how that is going to go but my gf and I have talked it over and she says that she has no problem with me getting some one-on-one time with her friend. I believe her, but as I say, we will see how things go.

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