It's also a sin, but don't let that stop you.

I think it has two sides. When someone commits suicide, they see it as doing everyone else a favor. Or at least as a depressed person, this is how I sometimes see things at my lowest point. I often have felt that if I were gone, I wouldn't bother anyone, or take up space, or take up money, and that I would be doing a good thing. For the flip side, a person who is a loved one of a person who has commited suicide, they see it as a burden. They suddenly have this stress of a loved one dieing, the burden of paying for a funeral, if it is the spouse, being the soul parent and bread-winner, and is a hard thing to cope with. Guilt and stress is huge. It really depends on which side you are on. I can agree with both sides and I can't exactly pick a side.

I do think it is cowardly and not at all selfless. Most people have others who love & care about them, and leaving them in this way is terribly cowardly. The people left behind are left confused, angry and blame themselves sometimes. How is that selfless? Even if you are terminally ill I think the only way it would be vaguely ok (and I mean hardly OK at all) is if you clearly explain to your family what you are going to do and why, so they are not left blaming themselves, and thinking that they were not loved (or the person would have stuck around as long as possible). I see where you are coming from as for the person who is actually doing it - they do have to confront death etc, but when people are depressed this is not so difficult if you think others would be better off without you.

It is weak. It is giving up and throwing in the towel. You only get one life, and after it there is nothing. You may end the pain for yourself, but you create pain for everyone. Whatever someone's goal is for suicide, they won't get to see it through. There is no relief from pain, just nothingness. Obviously, this is an atheist's opinion. My high school has had three suicides in the past four years. All of these people had no real reason to kill themselves. Article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/01/22/MNGDANML2R1.DTL If you are thinking about suicide, call the National Hope Line Network at 1(800) SUICIDE (784-2433)

I think its against the law and rightfully so.

I'm sure the people left behind don't find it so courageous. It's a slap in the face to everyone who cares about you and to all of us who manage to stick it out till the natural end. It's the most selfish thing you can do. It's telling everyone that you just don't care enough about them to stick around.

my 15 year old daughters 2 best friends just killed themselves this weekend..I can tell you she is blaming herself, maybe she did not listen enough, hang around them as much, she has been in tears for 3 days..do I think it is a selfless act no way...leaving people behind who genuinly care about you, and suffer because they lost you with no real answers as to why is really selfish to me...

My opinion is that whatever you're trying to deal with it isn't worth not being alive tomorrow. You've got to find a bright side to look on.

Ironically, a selfless act can be the most selfish thing of all. The only person who might benefit from a suicide is the person who commits the act. Even if you don't think you are doing anyone any good as a living being, how does a suicide improve on that picture? If you can muster courage and strength to die, can't you muster courage and strength to live? What are the odds here - chances are, more people will benefit if you live than if you take your life. I think that suicide is brave and selfish if you are confronted with a situation in which others might die if you live, but 99.9% of the human race will never be in that position. It's certainly a personal choice, and people who commit suicide are the only ones in a position to measure their pain and their circumstances. I don't judge that. But I don't see any way in which it is selfless.

IF I had all my funeral and other preparations arranged, have no family that would be hurt or left worse off without me financially or otherwise, and have taken care of my obligations so my death would not put any burden - financial or otherwise on anyone else, I should have the right to end my life if the quality is, from my SANE standpoint, very low. It is a subjective decision a person can make that is justified in my opinion. Legal or not, a person who smokes or drinks or uses drugs hurts and costs society and their family alot more than someone who decides to end their life because they feel the quality is so low they simply do not care to go on with it any longer.

The reason for suicide being considered selfish refers to the chaos reigned upon family/friends/loved ones who are left behind once death has occurred. They are ones who have to confront death and overcome and move on from it. It could take years and years, perhaps a lifetime, perhaps less. Imagine, if your (for example) spouse committed suicide and left you to explain, cope, assist in coming to terms with and accepting (without any accountability), the emotional integrity of your child and at the same time yourself. Where d'you start exactly? First question will be 'why', next up, probably along the lines of 'was it something I did/said', followed with 'I thought they [dead person] loved me'. A person filled with misery and despair even to the point of wishing death would come and end it all, still does not have the right to inflict the same upon those around them. Somebody thinking about suicide is somebody, who is only considering themselves, how they feel, their misery/pain etc. Why would you want to make those around you feel miserable and unhappy like you you do yourself? How do you justify inflicting grief and turmoil onto others? It is weak and self motivated to adopt an attitude of 'I feel bad therefore I have the right to make everybody else feel as bad as I do' - thus I shall kill myself. I have this right because how I feel is more important that anything else including those I leave behind. It does not matter to me how unhappy they will be or how many years it will take before for emotional impact of my death is overcome. I'm a VIP and sod everyone else'. Hmmm, nice. Very brave, most courageous.

When I think of a courageous individual who confronts death and overcomes the instinct of self-preservation, I picture someone running into a burning building to rescue someone. THAT is courage. I agree that there is an element of courage needed to actually commit sucicide, but I would argue that it is more courageous to face whatever it is that life throws at you. Selfless it is not! Like many have already said here, to me it is the ultimate act of selfishness. Whether you are religious or not, a life, especially a human life, should be viewed with reverance and sanctity. What a gift it is. What a tragedy when it ends too early.

I have much experience with both sides of this issue. Suicide is simultaneously brave and cowardly. The survival instinct is the strongest, most primal urge you will ever experience. It takes great willpower to stare it in the face and overcome it. It is cowardly, however, to take the easy way out and not face your problems. As for the people around you, that is their problem. You are not responsible for how they feel. How fucking selfish and self-centered is that? "Oh, don't kill yourself because it will make ME feel bad." Get over yourself.

About two yaers ago my wife committed suicide. I can say I have learned some things from the loss. First of all it has nothing to do with cowardly. This would imply that courage could possibly be an issue as well. No way. She was very depressed ( this was unknown to me at the time ) and lost hope. Weakness is realative to our history and view of ourself. We all have strenghts and weaknesses. Selfish, somehow maybe if you look at it in this light. When you have lost all hope and are convinced of never regaining it ( depression can do this to you ), death may seem the only option. I survived my trial with depression but it took a lot of help from a lot of committed people to see me through and I was never depressed until her death. This is so hard to understand until youve experienced it but believe me, ANYONE can fall to this given the wrong situations at the wrong time! Im diong much better now, two years later, but sometimes it hurts.

It definitely leaves less of self. More seriously, you are right in that it usually takes a great deal of courage and strength. However, in a person contemplating suicide, it is also usually the easy way out, seen as preferable to exercising the strength of will to face their life and its problems and overcome. (Say about 99.5% of the time.) As someone who struggles with depression, I can truthfully say that sometimes the hardest thing in the world is to get up, paste an expression on, and do something, anything useful. Depression shuts down a lot of automatic, self-preservation safeguards. In reality, we know that suicide's main purpose is to opt out and leave others to clean up the mess and mourn. There are some that we (as a society) don't condemn for it: Those who are or are going incurably insane and are a potential menace to those around them. Those who are incurably ill and in great pain. Those who are protecting vital security information. Those who have no other way to protect others from the malice of others. (Sacrifice, not suicide, in a way, on the last two.) To be blunt, why waste all that courage and strength on suicide instead of using it to make something worthwhile out of life? Hmm? Suicide only creates a vacuum, and nature abhors a vacuum. Just curious, but why are you asking this question? Your phrasing doesn't make me think that you are suicidal yourself...

I have seen the damage suicide leaves behind, if you are thinking of it yourself, I'm willing to talk to you. I'm not a pro, but I am willing to listen and help any way I can.

To say that committing suicide is selfish is just as simplistic as saying that it is selfless. The argument that you should continue suffering because to end that suffering will hurt someone else is pretty selfish of the the family/friends of the person. The overall message I've seen here is that it appears that "selfish" is a very large part of the human condition. Family/friends are selfish for expecting someone to endure un-endurable pain for their benefit, and the suicide committer is selfish for ending their pain at the expense of causing others pain. I don't think there is a black and white answer. I do know that pain is a personal thing and therefore it is a selfish thing. No one can feel your pain, and everyone feels pain differently, so to give it an overall label of courageous or cowardly doesn't seem possible

generally, people say suicide is selfish because they don't want to feel bad after someone finally kills themselves. suicide isn't necessarily selfless or selfish. it depends on why you kill yourself. if you kill yourself to get back at someone, or to punish someone, it's selfish. revenge accomplishes nothing. hurting yourself to hurt others never works (i've learned that from experience). however, in such a circumstance that killing yourself would benefit society, suicide could then be viewed as selfless.

Good question! Military personnel are expected to commit suicide (in various guises) all the time and this is obviously a very selfless act. I have great believe in personal choice; if I choose to die it is up to me, if I choose to live it is up to me. Bottom line it is after all said a done MY life! I think the the reasoning behind the selfish act etc. is because the people left behind do not want to cope with it - the grief, the torture of not knowing why and the clearing up of the mess! If you prepared the way and took care to explain your reasons for wanting to do it ect. and prepared your own funeral etc. then what is the problem? It's like keeping someone alive on support if they don't want it, you deal with it they don't have to, they may want to die, let them! It's their choice.

It depends on the context. if a person were to kill themselves to escape a burden, and then pass that burden onto others, i would call that selfish in a way. On the other hand, if a person where to kill themselves to save someone else, or because the people around them would actually be better off, then it could be seen as courageous. It depends on the person and their situation.

I think this isn't a question that can be written in general. For a young healthy person who is upset over something - suicide is senseless. For someone with a terminal illness and there's no hope for recovery, well maybe. But even at that I have known people extremely ill and believed in life right up until their last breath. Depression can be treated - even the most chronic type.

well it does depend on the circumstances, for example, if someone were to have a ton of friends and family who liked them, and they were just doing it to escape their own problems that's a bit selfish, and cowardly... but for someone to do it when they didn't have many friends of family, and they thought they were doing the world good, that there is couragious, and not selfish because they were thinking of others before themselves.

I think suicide is indeed a selfish act. People often lie to themselves and tell themselves that people left behind will be better off, less burdened, etc. This is merely an attempst to rationalize an irrationalize belief. Suicide is selfish because it gives no thought to the pain that is left on others. It gives no thought to the FACT that once suicide is completed, the chances of another family member committing suicide sky rockets to 800%. People who commit suicide teach others that its ok, an OPTION, for when things get too tough. It teaches others that quitting is an option. Suicide is always about ending ones own PERSONAL suffering, and never about the LONG TERM and EVER LASTING effects on others.

1) There are two kinds of suicide: - seeking help, hoping it will not work (but sometimes, it does work) - really wanting to die (and it mostly works) 2) Those people who have a judgment on suicide should do it themselves first, I am prepared to receive their arguments afterwards 3) I personally do not believe that suicide could solve any problems, but that's just me 4) Suicide can be weak, and it can be strong. It can be selfish, and it can be selfless. But is is mostly deadly. And: I do not support suicide bombing. Further reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasuicide

I do not think that all cases could be treated adequately in the small space we have here. I do not personally think of suicide as selfless. It is ultimately selfish, because it is self-centred ie what is best for me. I don't think you can escape that. However, that does not mean that some people do not really think that they are doing the world a favour by exiting. That is, in many cases, a wrong or mixed-up view, brought about by stress, illness, severe emotional trauma etc and, with counselling, many do come to see that their attempts to kill themselves were not justified. The only cases where I can see that there might be selflessness is in the case of people who kill themselves rather than give up the location of eg Jews they were hiding in WW2. As I said, I don't think that there is enough space to discuss all possibilities. My husband's young cousin threw herself down stairs because she was being totally controlled by her father and could see no way out. I don't think it was selfless of her to do that, but I do see how her confused thinking led her to think that was the only way of escape, when there were other ways.

I agree 100%! I have been listening since I was a little kid that people who commit suicide are "cowards". I don't get it. Why do they say that? I think that it takes a lot of courage to pull a trigger when you know that the bullet is going to destroy your brain and that blood, bones and human tissue are going to produce a splash all over around you. It takes courage to leave this world to get into a path to the unknown.

Thank you, someone thinks so... I agree with you. Well, I don't think it's always either selfless or selfish, and it CAN be selfish, but not for the reasons people usually say it is. I think it makes no sense to say it's weak and cowardly -- if you have ever tried it, you know how much guts it takes to do so... If you think about it, it's selfish for someone to call another person selfish for committing suicide.

I think you have to more courageous than other people to commit scuicide.But, that wouldnt be unusual. Since a lot of the people I meet in life who do various crimes are there not because of lack of intelligence (they seem to have an abundance of that when I compete with them for various things in life).But because they are very smart they get overconfident(You may have heard the phrase overconfidence kills )However, Based on my what I have studied in the clinical death experience. Scuicides have a very rough time of it.Not to scare you but. There are lots of accounts from scuicide victims who were revived in a hospital after flatling and they are in shock like war trauma because of a hell like visit. i.e some say after they killed themselves they found themselves in fiery hell with caves and roots and demons carrying baseball bats. They said they could hear screaming like people being tortured.

People who commit suicide may honestly feel what they are doing is for the best. In essense, the idea of them being selfish stems from the thought that they will leave behind a wake of sorrow for all those who care about them. I believe, personally, that the individual ought to first seak help before doing something as dirastic as ending their life. If their mind still cannot be changed after many therapies and counsling, then perhaps, suicide is not the worst answer. It could then be the only way that person could enjoy life, making it selfish of the others to wish for them to stay.

As with everything in life, it depends on the specific situation, not a general description. For example, picture a person who is terminally ill and has no insurance. They only have one month to live, and if they live for that month they will be stuck in a hospital bed the whole time, in incredible pain, unable to communicate. Plus, without insurance, it will exhaust the family's entire savings- including the college funds for the kids. Without that money, the kids will earn minimum wage for the rest of their lives. If they go now, they will say their goodbyes, die without pain, and the kids will be able to go to school, get an education, and get good jobs. I'd say that dying now would be both beneficial to themselves, and to their family.

i dont believe that i have the right to critisize the way that someone wants, or even doesnt want, to live their own life. we have all these 'rights', and yet when someone wants to end it everyone seems to critisize saying how inconsiderate and selfish they were. how about if we turn this around and say that the critics are the selfish ones for expecting someone deeply unhappy to carry on living a life that they no longer want. suicide is something that takes a lot of courage to do,and to succeed. when you get to the point of 'am i really sure i want to be doing this' you know that if you have to question your actions then you really dont want to live. my father committed suicide at christmas last year, and i feel a combination of emotions towards this: confused-why?there seemed to be no specific reason, although i now know more to give me an insight as to why, it still doesnt explain everything angry-how dare he leave me and my family behind:did he even think abut us? saddend-i have suffered a great loss and im still greiving, regret-saying things i didnt mean, not saying those that where true, for the way that things turned out between us i regret mostly that he may have died thinking i hated him on the other hand im happy, as he tried over and over to take his own life and im happy that he has got what he wanted (im being honest i dont mean to sound bitter) i hope that he is in a much nicer place and that he is happy now. i cannot possibly explain my entire opinion on suicide as alot in my life has contributed towards me forming this opinion. if anybody ever judged my dad for choosing the moment and method to die, i would simply say, he is a braver person than you or i for making such a big decision, he is not selfish, we are for expecting him to stay on earth unhappy and also, who are we to say what he should and shouldnt of done, we should respect his decision even if we do not agree afterall it was his life

It depends how and why someone commits suicide. If it is to escape depression, I would reguard it as cowardice. Daddy always said "Life is hard and then you die. Cry a river, make a bridge, and get over it." But if it's say, a soldier taking a bullet for his team, or jumping on the grenade in the hospital, then that is the ultimately self-less act. Those are the people who prove how far humanity has really come.

Scuicide is generally a cowardly act, with some exceptions. For the most part, most people who commit scuicide are letting their problems in life win over them, thus giving up aka cowardice. Also, most scuicides think that they will either make things easier for others left behind, or will stop causing them problems. Well if the people they are trying to spare genuinely care about them, the scuicide will cause them more emotional pain than anything else. The only notable expetions to all this are the terminally ill, who are suffering.In that case I will not call them cowardly, but rather let it slide, as no one deserves to suffer and die PHYSICALLY. Emotional suffering is NO EXCUSE for scuicide. everyone hurts, every feels bad. But only the weak let the pain beat them.

Suicide is neither selfish or selfless. Suicidal tendancies are a sign of mental illness and should be treated as such.

I remember 15 years ago, laying in bed with a gun to my head, ready to end it all. I kept thinking of one reason to live, just ONE. My mind kept going back to my daughter and I honestly thought to myself, "I am so screwed up she would be better off without me anyway." As I was reviewing all the reasons in my mind I wanted to end it all I heard myself say, " I am just sick of fighting, of being strong, I can't do it anymore." And I thought abuot all the ways I had been courageous in my life, overcome obstacles, met challenges, fought hard for what I believed in, stood up for myself and others, etc.." and then the thought occured to me, "You have fought too hard to die like a chicken***!" And I knew it was true. It was probably one of the only times in my life I had ever given myself any credit at all and with just that little spark of self esteem going for me, I turned my life around.I could not stand to let all my battles be in vain. The truth is that nothing I have ever done, no failure, no wrong, no mistake I have ever made in being a parent could have hurt my child more than me taking my own life. Today, my daughter is 24 and I share with her that story. From she has learned that you can be in the pit of dispair, in a hole so deep you think you will never come out and yet you can change it, if you want to. Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the ability to taken action in the midst of it.

Aye.. agreed it takes guts.

My opinion is that it's sad for a person to feel that life is not worth living anymore and to feel that so strongly that they are willing to kill themselves. And if you do that, do you know what's awaiting you afterwards? Because it may be a lot worse. Also, I know from experience that when a person considers or commits suicide they are probably only thinking of themselves, and they may be perfectly justified in being miserable, but they're still not thinking of anyone else or of what's left for them in life. All they see is their pain. Suicide isn't the most selfish thing a person could do, if you think about it. I think that when people are in that state of mind though they are blinded for awhile and hopefully they can get through that time to a better time when they can see that it's not worth it to end their life. Also, suicide is like murder. You shouldn't be entitled to take your own life in the same way that you have no entitlement to anyone else's life. But that is my belief because I am a Christian and I believe only God has that right. And if you know God, then making that decision and saying that God has no power to make things better in your life is, most people believe, condemning. As in, you will go to hell when you die. It's like a final act of distrust or rejection of God's promises.

No idea if I answered before, but heres what I believe. I know for a fact that I will commit suicide. When I am old or if I get diagnosed with a disease that cannot be cured (my mother had cancer, and there is a very large chance it will manifest in me) I will commit suicide. I will not die on a hospital bed, hooked up to machines. Suicide is not a selfless act, it hurts those around you, and for those who die in their homes, who do you think will find the body (or the peices depending on the method)? Your loved ones. It is never a selfless act, however it is everyones right to decide to die how they wish, no one can take that away from you.

Well, yes. It does take a great deal of strength and courage to face something so horrible. But it too is a cowardly and weak and yes selfish thing. Anytime we face something we fear requires courage. But to seek it out in favor of dealing with the true problems we face in life is cowardly. The strength it takes to stare at death and attempt to overcome it's boundaries is weighed by the weakness of giving in on our struggle for survival. The choices of life and death are never easy. Sometimes the mind clouds our judgement. Sometimes our heart clouds our mind. And sometimes others cloud our heart. As in all cases dealing with life and death, the best you can do is talk with someone. Someone who knows how to listen.

i sound like a hippie, but life is a journey. yeah, sometimes it's gonna be crappy, but without the crappy times, how are you going to know when you're having a good time?

I have a mood disorder and struggle with suicidal thoughts quite often. Suicide is NOT a selfless act, and the aim is not to confront death, but to escape life. Sure, someone who is suffering immense pain should have the right to choose if they want to keep living with it. But even though at the time, we convince ourselves we're saving our loved ones from the burden of living with us (which is what I tell myself sometimes), the pain that suicide inflicts on people NEVER truly goes away. I won't say that suicide is weak and cowardly, because the people that commit it aren't, but it's definitely not selfless, corageous or strong.

Are you a Hamlet fan? You might like his famous monologue, in which he ponders the same issue. "To be or not to be..."

well theres two ways to look at it. yes it takes alot of guts to overcome death. but it is selfish to take yourself away from your loved ones (even if you dont think you dont have any) and its cowardly because death is sometimes thought of as an escape

suicide's easier if you're depressed enough.

How can it be a selfless act? Ask the friends and family of someone who has taken their own life how proud they are of them for confronting death. How long they will agonize over what "they might have done to prevent it". Courage? It shows much more courage to face life and it's hardships. I know depression, mental illness, etc., sometimes causes people to think differently about things than they ordinarily would...but aside from that..when life gets tough, opting out shows a lack of courage, and is a selFISH act in that it causes so much suffering for the ones who love you. That's my opinion.

My best friend committed suicide in 1986, leaving a teenage daughter and another daughter who was 12. That act devasted her family and friends...we all felt guilty, that we had let her down somehow. So speaking from the experience of having had someone close to me commit suicide, I would say it was selfish in the extreme, cowardly and brutal to those she left behind. That is my opinion..I see nothing selfless, noble or brave whatsoever there.

It's neither selfish nor unselfish, neither cowardly nor courageous. It's just desperation. That's all it is.

"Confronting" death is no great act of courage or strength -- we're ALL going to do it one day. And the selfishness comes from the harm done to those left behind -- the abandoned spouses and children, the friends who would have comforted you and helped you in your struggles if only you had reached out to them, etc.

Suicide, at least in my experience, is a completely selfish act. My husband, committed suicide two years ago. He had a great career and two beautiful children. He left them without even telling them goodbye. He was more concerned about his dogs than he was his own kids. In his suicide note, it never ONCE mentioned his children only his dogs. They are now going through therapy because they do not understand why their father did not love them enough to stay alive. Forgiveness for the grief he caused his own two kids, will be hard.

It's neither selfish nor unselfish, neither cowardly nor courageous. It is an unconscious act during which you don't think or feel anything. Most people in pain, not necessarily physical pain, are the ones that commit suicide, they are submerged in their grief, they are not reasoning what they are about to do, we could say they are at the moment mentally ill as they don't remember those other family members, siblings or friends they only know they are deeply hurting, empty, in a dark and endless tunnel, alone, hopeless and need to put a stop to it. I certainly believe it is an unconscious reaction to grief.

I tried to commit suicide years ago. And it wasn't for attention. I felt it took a lot of courage - after all, I had no 100% guarantee of what I was getting myself into. I didn't feel like a weakling, I was sure others didn't do it because THEY were weak and just wanted to project their feelings unto suicidal people. I felt I was being very selfless - perhaps some would grieve for a few days, then move on with their lives. All the better for my not being a part of it any longer. Strength? I was empowered after all. I had the final say. How much more powerful is that. Instinct of self-preservation? Not too sure on that one, since I didn't want to preserve my life. This was not a scare tactic, this was going to be the end. Well, I survived the suicide attempt. And I hated that I had done so. In fact, one of my first thoughts was: next attempt whatever I did wrong, I have to make sure I get it right! So I come back to consciousness after being in a coma for days. And this is what I found: A heartbroken wife (now ex-wife, and I don't blame her one bit) for not thinking I'd be leaving her alone. 3 children that didn't have a clue what had happened, but were smart enough to figure out it was bad and that somehow I hadn't thought of them first, but rather of myself and my pain. Both their mother and they are 100% correct. It was the most selfish thing I ever did. Ever. Cowardly? I realized my wife, kids, parents, friends continued to move forward, including me in their lives. And I realized what 'strength' and 'courage' and 'selfless' really was. And I saw that they had not only the instict of their own self-preservation, but to carry enough for me until I could have some of my own again. What's my opinion? If I could turn back time, I would NEVER have let those thoughts get the better part of me. I wish I could go back and undo that day. And I wish I had the 'courage' to see how 'weak and cowardly' I was going to behave by doing this. And how selfish, how horribly selfish I was going to be behaving in carying it through. How narcisistic I was behaving, while in my mind making myself out to be so 'noble' I would get out of everyone's way so we could all be happier. In one word, it was bullshit, and I was full of it. It takes an enormous amount of courage, strength and selflesness to face life. And the only ones that overcome the instinct of self-preservation out of selflesness are the ones that though wanting to live, give their lives for us. I've been told I'm very opinionated. I know without a doubt, having lived this and putting so many through such a horrible nightmare has cemented my opinions on this one. Life is ironic. Since then, I've had some very close to me committ suicide. While I understood their pain, I see none as being anything but what I was. A selfish, weak coward that chose to hurt others than to fight the good fight to overcome their own.

Given that I am someone who has attempted it, I think that it is selfish, but not how we normally think of selfishness. When I did what I did, I was fed up with everything going on and the way I'd been treated, so that was selfish, but not because I didn't care about others think. During my recovery I saw and heard first hand how it affected people close to me, when at the time I was literally unable to think about them. When you're in that state of mind you don't try and be self centered, but that's what happens. In regards to the weak and cowardly, it bothers me when I see things like that. People fail to realize that more often then not suicidal people have some sort of psychological disorder that affects how they are able to deal with life. If someone with multiple sclerosis doesn't want to play contact football, nobody calls them weak and cowardly. People just need to try and look at it from the other persons point of view.

Coming from a person who struggles with this manner of thinking, I believe that one can become so focused on the "outside" and trying to please everyone else that that person neglects his or her own needs. Which pretty much is not healthy. Because you make yourself miserable trying to make everyone else happy which is impossible. Selflessness can become a very numbing, very powerful thing in itself. I don't think it can be categorized as any of the above. Those who are suicidal are (with the exception of some medically assisted suicides) not thinking rationally. They're thinking through their depression, which is never a decent guide for making great decisions.

I do agree with whats in your question. But It is seen selfish, as the suicide(e) Is not being grateful for the life thats been given them. If your going to commit suicde, you might as well not have been born.. and the slot given to someone else. Tis a waste of life. There is most likely allways someone much worse off than you out there. And there are those who have kept strength and perserveerd to great results! There is allways hope, so dont give up. Everyones life is precious.

I agree with you, partly... But there is always the fact that the people you leave behind will be so hurt because of it, and it really is a very sad waste, but an understandable one... Definately takes courage, but so does carrying on.

is even more selfish wanting someone to be alive in spite of their suffering just beacuse we want them with us

Self-preservation in this case is more of a last-second instinct, not something you spend your time thinking about when you're contemplating suicide. It's when you have your head underwater or when you realize those pills really are going to kill you that the panic sets in and your mind suddenly decides "I want to live!" So yes, I do believe that suicide is a selfish, cowardly act.

i wasn't selfish but i can tell you i wasn't being selfless either. it's not cowardly but i think it takes a lot more strength to pull through rock bottom than just cutting it off. looking back on it now, i think it was more a selfish thing and lack of grattitude, but that wasn't in my head at the time. i just remember completely wanting to be done with all the BS in life and how sick i woke up everyday because i didn't want to roll off my bed. from what i've seen though, it's a lot more courageous to confront life than death

I do not find suicide to be selfish. It's a very personal affair, and for other people to say to someone not to do it because of what OTHER people will think or feel about them, is quite selfish of the person asking I think. Who is anyone think that they're so great that they should be enough to keep someone who wants to kill themselves from doing it? I have mixed feelings on whether or not it is weak. It's hard to actually carry out, but an easy way to fix (or I guess end) whatever problems you have. It is weak to not try to tough it out or fix it otherwise. I don't find it to be cowardly, just because it doesn't really have much to do with being brave or not. It has more to do with either being hopeful or feeling hopeless. However, I do not think it is selfless either. it's not helping anybody. You don't have to be brave to be desperate enough to shove some pills down your throat, and you don't have to be strong to never wake up again. Suicide isn't overcoming the instinct of self-preservation anyway, since they think it's better for them than anything else. I think that it is the wrong choice, mostly because nothing that's happening to the people who commit it is going to last forever. Somehow people just don't seem to see that. But I don't have a problem with (nor do I have much sympathy for) people who consider doing or did do it. If they want to, I guess I'm no one to judge whether or not their life is so horrible that it would be better that they didn't have to bear it. And I think other people should mind their business and not make it such a problem for THEM when someone DOES do it. Because really, whoever dies is the one that had the problem anyway. Not you because you knew or cared about them.

My brother in law hung himself this past weekend. He had three kids all under the age of 6. His four year old is constantly crying and asking why. As a parent your life purpose is to protect, love, and nurture your children. His act has destroyed them and only God knows if they will ever get better. All of this because his wife wanted a divorce. Divorce would have been a better option for his poor children and wife. I can not explain to you the pain our family is going through and how unreal the whole thing is. Unless this happens to you, you can not fathom the reality of the torture the ones left behind face.

Ah, I don't really consider it a noble thing to do. There's nothing positive about it. I don't think it's about courage and strength. You're almost speaking of it as though it's heroic.

I hate to answer this because I have no personal experience, and most of us don't, but I have noticed a pattern. It has seemed like everyone with experience that had posted a story of their own has come to the realization if they attempted, or had felt that it was if they knew someone who had, selfish to an extreme. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I know that my family loves me very much, and if I died, I would leave them hurt for the rest of their lives. They might not show it after some time, but the scar will always be there. And if someone in my family or a close friend did that, I would be unbelievably hurt, and I'm not sure, but I would probably start to blame myself and have doubts about what I could have done. We can't just all go ahead and decide whether it is courageous or cowardly. You can't just have one sole opinion on the human mind like that, because every person thinks differently in one way or another. One person may be overwhelmed with stress, and let those thoughts get the better of them and take their life. One person might feel that the world hates them and thinks they are doing people a favor. The stories vary. I feel bad for people who commit suicide, because they really don't know the impact they may have on the people around them. Their mind is clouded with negative thoughts of hate and stress. It's a shame that they don't go and seek help before making such a rash decision, but it happens quite often, and we have to do our best to fight those thoughts, and keep positive because life is a gift, and you only have one. Make the best of it because life is only as great as you make it to be.

Fair warning for you guys; I'm not sure or not, but I may go off topic of the central focus...maybe. I dunno... Well, let's stop for a sec and think... Way back to the Samurai, probably the Warring States Period of Japan. You have these people, mostly men (there were female samurai as well), who work under a shogunate as soldiers, officers, court officials, and the like. They are paid handsomely for their military services. Spanning from spears and pole arms to swords and daggers, even to riding on horse back with bows and arrows (the earlier days of the samurai). Now, the way these hardened martial artists (they practiced many to become a samurai) preserved their own honor from the jaws of defeat was to commit a ritual suicide called 'sepuku' or 'sepoku'(forgot how it's really spelled). They would drive their Wakizashis into their stomachs, cut down, then across, enduring through the pain, so that their intestines can spill out onto the ground. And, if requested by the dying samurai, a good friend would do the honor of severing his partner's head with a katana, so that the dying samurai will not have to stand the pain of it. However, if that samurai isn't able to commit sepuku/sepoku, then he is considered cowardly, and is dishonored for life. If a samurai were to in some way dishonor the shogunate in any way, that samurai would have to commit sepuku/sepoku. With this, I'm not saying that suicide is an honorable thing to do; I don't know if it is or not, but these samurai had the courage enough to actually take their own life without shame. This is how these men were brave. But the day of the samurai is over, and death has a different new meaning today then what the Japanese samurai would think. And, from the example I've put forth, here's what I think each aspect should symbolize today. "They are paid handsomely for their military services." - Well, if you live life (not exactly) 'in service' of the world, God, or whatever you believe in with utmost integrity, selflessness (maybe even virtue if you're up to it), and when you respect your fellow person as you would yourself, and if you have a glimmer of hope in something in your soul, then things will be guaranteed to get better. (Yes, I'm mostly optimistic.) I may sound naive for saying this (I probably am), but wouldn't the person put him/herself higher than any of the petty or major issues that seem to make life not worth living? At that immediate moment of his/her all-time low, probably not. But still, if you can't live for yourself, then at least live for music, food, video games, or whatever you thought of as second- or third-priority. Also, one can always take that pain and turn it into something positive. But of course, some choose not to do this, thinking s/he has 'no other choice.' Only with that do I think that that person is actually cowardly; when someone takes action into suicide, I consider them brave. Then, I also think... couldn't they take that same bravery and turn it around onto another positive aspect on life, like I have? But they're not me; not everyone has the same mental, or even emotional, armor as the next guy, and it'd be wrong to bash this into someone's head. "Spanning from spears to pole arms, to swords and daggers, even to riding on horseback with bows and arrows..." - Here are the weapons of life at disposal, or at least what I consider life's weapons. (or armor; your perspective, your choice of words) I'll name off the most obvious ones and delve into it a little more as I go along: High self-esteem, positive attitude and outlook, not easily swayed by peer pressure ("You're a loser," "You'll amount to nothing," "You're ugly," "You'll never succeed," "No one will listen to you," "No one will love you,"etc., and all that petty crap), and emotional strength. (guaranteed, there are people out there who want nothing but to break you down, stomp and spit on you, and the like) Now, here are the less obvious ones: Focus - Don't lose sight of your goals for success or your ambitions. Leave all of the things against you out of your way, and if they persist, fix it in the best, possible, humane way. The suicidal types tend to change that to eventual death by his/her own hand. Asking Questions - "Why?" When someone comes at you, saying stuff like "You'll amount to nothing," just ask them. Tell them to provide cold hard evidence as to why it is so. If they can't provide it, then disregard the statement completely, and don't give it any further thought. Self-Discipline - Pretty much just like Batman did, he overcame his own fears and doubts and embodied it, turning it into a strength. Most people go off of what other people say instead of seeking knowledge about themselves FOR themselves. "Preserved their own honor by committing a ritual suicide known as sepuku or sepoku" - The way that suicidals think of solving their problems by suicide can also be seen as them preserving their honor from their own mistakes. Personally, I don't think honor would mean anything, especially to the ones that actually gave a care about the suicidal. And yes, to them, it would be considered a cowardly, selfish act. Then the questioning would start to occur, like, "Did I do something wrong?" "Could I have done something?" "What did I miss?" "Why did this happen?" Most definately, suicide is not weak; it takes a good amount of courage to inflict harm on oneself. The Flagellants back during The Bubonic Plague didn't have a problem doing that, and that was out of fear of a greater epidemic, just like how the suicidals think today. "And, if requested by the dying samurai, a good friend will do the honor of severing his partner's head so that the dying samurai won't have to deal with the pain" - Sometimes, friends aren't always who one thinks they are, or they don't take one seriously. Heck, sometimes, they can make things worse, just putting salt on already deep enough wounds. And if the words from the friend(s) actually affect the decision on actually doing the act of committing suicide, then yes, s/he/they have done the honor of 'severing one's head.''if requested by the dying samurai' means 'when the person goes to seek advice or reassurance of his/her situations and the storms of self-doubt swirling in his/her head.' "If a samurai were to in some way dishonor the shogunate in any way, that samurai would have to commit sepuku/sepoku." - If someone were to in some way, be it big or small, it shouldn't be the reason to take his/her own life. But I shouldn't be one to judge. I don't know what these people have experienced, nor do I know if they are usually or not emotionally stolid. Killing oneself is what the world only wants him/her to do. It's pretty much just a bluff set up by the crowd. And I know, deep down, that anyone can be better than that. Those are all my long-winded reasons. Forgive me for the epic post, but I've had a mind to speak up for a while now, and it was the perfect opportunity for me.

Go ask that question of someone whose child has committed suicide. Go look at the pain in the face of a parent. I have. Some friends of mine lost a son to suicide. Look them in the eye and tell them its selfless. I don't think you'd like the reaction.

I think that wether suicide is brave or not depends on the method.When someone is depressed and deeply unhappy as I am, Pulling the trigger would be easy and if i had a gun i would do it because most of the times its a quick death but things like hanging takes alot of courage because it's a slow and painfull death.

i see both sides except for when you say it is selfLESS. could you explain how it's selfless?

People who are in danger of actually committing suicide genuinely feel as if they have nothing to lose. This includes people with caring friends and family. Whether or not the person actually does have what to lose is irrelevant to the potential suicide victim, as his/her perception is clouded by the depression that is the motivation for suicide. The fact that family and friends will be left devastated, and that the problem of depression is of a temporary nature while suicide is a permanent solution, are not being considered properly at the time that suicide is being chosen as the way to move forward. So is it weak, cowardly, selfish? To the observers, it certainly seems that way. The reality of it is that its more of a sickness in that the logical process that would lead someone to recognize that their lot in life could be a lot worse and therefore suicide is not the way to go is clouded by chemical reactions in the brain. Those who are looking to place blame may more accurately say that it's a matter of self neglect - not seeking appropriate psychological help during the depression.

Since we never ask to be brought into this world it is no ones business what we do with ourselves.Certainly not the damned government, or law.Think of it as you wish. Suicide is neither cowardly/selfish, or courageous/honorable. If i kill myself it's because I choose to. This world tries its goddamnedest to destroy you then acts like a constipated chimp when you have had enough of its BS. Religions, governments, etc. The U S allows the almighty state to treat one in a manner that makes the Nazi Gestapo look like the Munchkins on the Wizard of Oz if one attempts it.I have no wife or kids, so when my parents go I will have no one to be a burden to. When I decide to do it, it will be in a manner no one will ever know.

I don't think it's selfish to want to commit suicide. I think it's selfish of the suicidal person's family to force them to want to live. I think it's selfish of people to judge suicidal people when they haven't been in that position before. Happiness, contrary to what many people believe, comes from within. Some people can be 'happy' even after a family member kills themselves because that's their disposition. On the other end of the spectrum, some people will be 'unhappy' even if they're millionaires or seem to have the 'perfect' life. Some can't help being happy and some can't help being sad, depressed, hopeless(whatever you want to call it). Some people are unhappy all the time and it's not their fault. It's part of the human condition. Unfortunately humans are intelligent enough to not only be happy and unhappy, but to actually go against what's 'natural'. It's not natural to WANT to die and that's why people fear it and think it's a sign of 'weakness' when someone wants to. It is infact (like everything) a matter of opinion. Your opinion is your reality. A 'depressed' person's logic goes something like this: What's the point in life if it only ends in death? Your brain stops functioning when you die so you will forget everyone you have ever known, including family and friends. Every experience you have, be it bad or good, will be forgotten. People will remember you(relative meaning) but so what? Soon they will be dead etc. etc. So what is the OVERALL MEANING of life? Answer: No one KNOWS for sure. (They have a valid point. Whether you want to deal with the truth or not is up to you.) The hardest thing for me to get to grips with is how people can go about living their lives without giving it any kind of thought. Sure, people think about the bills to be paid etc. But people don't think about the overall meaning. They just seem to go on blindly without questioning anything. They do this for many reasons: I think ignorance is the main one. That's where religion comes in. People like being assured that there "definitely is a God" and he will look after us no matter what. People don't like not 'knowing everything'. I suppose my main point is who's point of view is right? Is there a right? Is there a wrong? That's for you to decide. But decide for yourself. Don't let someone else influence your opinion totally. And don't force your opinion on anyone else. Finally don't dismiss someone elses opinion as 'depression'.

i think ur very write and very smart but suicide is not the answer and never will be. have u every thought about what happens after u commit suicide. on that note i think theirs allot of things that might happen depending on your religious beliefs. one of the things i think is after u commit suicide u will become a ghost because ur soul is uneasy and probably bares a lot of anger and sadness so you'll be trapped to walk the earth until u find peace with yourself and others who harmed u . so why not do that before hand and settle things with yourself cus Ur gonna have to do it sometime . but that's just what i think its not a proven fact.

The great error most make is thinking of suicide as just one thing. Like everything in life it is a complicated issue. Biological health, experiences, perceptions about the past, present & future. A severely depressed person does not have what they need to get well. Their hope, will & desire are absent. This is a key reason why a physically ill person can overcome their dire circumstances, they still have an open mind. In most instances suicide is not a selfish thing at all. If you've tried 30-40 medications, if you've tried God, if you've asked for help from a friend and they say "suck it up", and if you've found nothing inside yourself to believe in a better future, looking for an end to immense pain is not cowardly or selfish, it's entirely normal. Those of us who have attempted suicide, I can promise you, we do consider what our act will do to those left behind but is their potential pain worse than our actual pain?

By commiting suicide you are proving to everyone that you do not have enough strength to live in this world and that you are taking the easy way out, and it shows that you are not brave enough to deal with your problems. I am severly depressed so i know what its like to want to commit suicide, so dont read this thinking that i don't know what im talking about. Also, suicide is selfish because it hurts everyone who loves you.

You people who oppose suicide are so blind. And I can see why, considering your heads are so far up your own asses. The simple fact of the matter is that you are not right. But at the same time neither is the suicidal person. You have to understand that it's subjective(if you are for/against suicide and you don't know what subjecive means then you don't have a valid opinion). If you think life is great then that's fine. Go and live your life to the full. Do whatever the fuck you want. No one's stopping you. If you think life is shit then that's fine. Go kill yourself. Do whatever the fuck you want. But in this case you will definitely have people who want to stop you. So what's the difference? Answer: opinion. And opinion is not fact. If you don't get what I'm saying straight off then you had better think about it. The fact of the matter is that most of the people who thought life is shit are dead. That's the truth. How can the dead voice their opinion? They can't. And I don't think they gave a shit either way. They realised what's up. So what we're left with is 6 billion of those who are of the opinion that life is great/worth living and around a hundred thousand of those who are suicidal, at any one time. Who's opinion do you think is gonna be portrayed as 'right'? Majority rules after all....

I think it is just what people say. It is your life, why should you have to put up with painful depression just to please other people. If they had even half of the pain I feel then they would want to die. I've had all the tablets out there, all the help, they only help people when there is a possible way out.

The number one cause of death for people suffering from fibromyalgia is suicide. My wife has this horrible condition and explains the peak pain episodes this way. Imagine having your arms or legs burned and then having the skin peeled off like tights or long gloves--pain like that. It is a pain that comes and goes. It is something most of us cannot imagine. There are degrees of pain and different symptoms of course. But those are hers. She has talked very matter of factly about suicide as an eventual option. I love her with all my heart and don't know if I will be able to carry on if she leaves this way. She has told me that she will not do it unexpectedly and that she knows how to make hers a peaceful death. In this circumstance I think that, while selfish, her suicide would be no more and no less than a surrender after a long fight. This is a fight we will all lose, by the way. To make it end at a time one's own choosing requires a clarity of thought that most of us cannot grasp.

No. There is never courage involved in escaping something.

People generally use suicide as a 'way out' of something. They don't think they can get out of their situation or that they'll ever get over feeling a certain way so they want to end it. That's not courage, fixing your situation, or dealing with your feelings, that's courage.

Yes I think it requires courage... People view it at cowardly because you are taking a quick way out of your troubles in this life. I think suicide requires mental illness. To kill yourself you must have something really wrong in your mind. It is sad that some people can’t find the answers they need and choose that as their answer. BTW my father committed suicide…

Suicide is the easy way out. I think more of the way of hating one's self so much that courage is irrelevant

No it is the lowest of self depression and hatred for oneself's.

It is cowardly, they only think of theirselves. What's brave about giving up?

Not to the Japanese...

I think there isn't just one answer. If I were dying and in incredible pain, I might do it. There isn't anything noble about enduring agony. However, there are many suicides that don't have to happen. People who are deeply depressed and don't say anything are denying themselves an opportunity to feel better.

Are you kidding? It takes the ultimate selfish coward to commit suicide. I don't care is some coward wants to kill themselves, I just care when they do it and their actions affect other people...

People look at it as cowardly because they are not strong enough to face life. Courage? I am unsure about that one.

it is cowardly. i dont think it requires courage at all. courage is facing the problems in their lives and moving forward. that and its selfish. you leave behind loved ones who cared about you because you couldnt handle it. there is always a better option than suicide

There are all kinds of reasons for suicide, but I feel that the person deciding on doing so finds it too difficult to address the troublesome issues in his/her life and decides it's just easier to stop trying and pull the plug him/herself. It is a selfish act in that there are sometimes many who suffer from the loss...and the one who commits the suicide seemingly gives insufficient weight to that fact. My large family and I just suffered such a loss, a 28-year old grand nephew, an alcoholic, within the past month.

no it is a cowardly way of not dealing with life. when the going gets tough the weak kill themselves

Cowardly not as much as cruelty. The known suffering left in it's wake is anything but kind.

Suicide is the act desperation of escaping one's problems they feel they can't handle. Bills, depression, and so on that overwhelms a person to the point instead of asking for help they would throw it all away. The only courage that has been noted through taking one’s life was in old Japan where one would take their life so dishonor would not fall on their family. Maybe even during war so knowledge that could hurt your allies wouldn’t fall into enemy hands. Beyond that they are fighting to make sure it don’t hurt and that’s not courage.

I've had two friend commit suicide within 8 months of each other. I think it takes quite a lot of courage. All this 'oh, it's selfish' talk is wrong. No one knows the hell that pushes a person to suicide. It is selfish to condemn the suicide.

I believe that it takes a lot of courage to put a weapon to your head and to pull the trigger; IF that is the way you decide to go ... It takes courage to cut your wrist and lay there bleeding to death .... It doesn't take so much courage to just take some pills and go to sleep ..... However; no matter which way you kill yourself ... you are leaving others to deal with your possessions, Bills, and whatever other problems that you did not take care of ... and that is more about being INCONSIDERIATE than being cruel etc ... So; it just depends on what method of Suicide that a peson chooses as to if it is "Cowardly" or not .

I certainly do think suicide requires a great deal of courage, especially for people who are aware that God says that that is one of the only sins you cannot be forgiven for and that you will never live again. An individual ending their own life is such a bold and courageous action any way you look at it. Yes, they are copping out of their problems, but, they are also escaping them. However, I understand why some think it's cowardly.

I don't think the decision to take one's life can be easily divided or classified in terms of courage or cowardice. It is a complex issue and the reasons for committing suicide can be varied, from extreme depression, mental inestability, etc. So when people say "he/she was a coward for commiting suicide" they're probably passing a judgment by their own parameters and values without analyzing the causes that lead to that act.

In the case of someone who has a way out (and 99% of the time, there is) and just "quits", that is cowardly...For something noble, i.e. (something clique, but works) a solider giving up his life in a situation where...it benefits somehow and it is called for...sure.

Albert Camus said: there is only one serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Basically, if you really believe that life is not worth living, then go ahead and kill yourself. If you do not commit suicide, then you must believe that there is a reason to live. Does it require courage? Well - it requires more courage than I have ever been able to summon. I am still here. So maybe there is something to live for. Or maybe I am just a coward for continuing to live.

wow, thats a deep question. i think its more of a matter of being a coward by running away from your problems and not being brave enough to deal with them or handle them. its not about how brave or cowardly actually comitting the act of killing yourself is. and its a really stupid way to impress people.

i completely agree i thought i was week when i tried but turned out it takes lots more courage to go...i have the courage now...

I would disagree with you. While it may take a great deal of courage to commit suicide, isn't the act being done because you lack the courage to live on?

Anybody who thinks that suicide is selfish has probably never been suicidal. When a person is truly suicidal, and actually reaches that point of doing the act, logical thinking is not even possible. These accusing people have to remember that depression is a disease (oh, yes, it is!!!) and often a depressed person can no more stop being depressed than a diabetic can stop being diabetic. Without medical and/or psychological treatment, the outcome of death is no more avoidable than with any other potentially fatal disease. As for the courage and strength, there's where I disagree. The time for suicide is when living would take more strength than one has, and suicide is the only option visible to the depressed. Suicide, in a whole new way, becomes the method of self-preservation: to finally escape unbearable pain. Now, there are suicidal people who are fully aware of all this, and seem to have control, and therefore will be labeled "selfish." Those people, I believe, do not completely accept, in every recess of their comprehension, that pulling the trigger (or making the jump, or whatever) will truly result in death. This is where it gets complicated, and will require many more studies throughout the world. But to those who still are convinced that they are right, that suicide is selfish, I say this: Isn't giving birth even more selfish? After all, the baby has no choice but to exist. Way to go. Thanks a lot. Now the poor kid has to deal with all the mess that society has created. You get my point, I'm sure. Anyhow, suicide cannot possibly be labeled "selfish" - - but it can also not be labeled "selfless". Gnaw on that one for awhile.