It is possible on this site to post details where it says "Enter An Explanation". Under the question. To me it is a disturbing example of men playing to men and as oftentimes happens in such situations we cease to exist as human beings for them.

Yes, I know, but if you add the details under "Explanation," if you write too much, what you write ends up overwritten by the "Notify me of answers" notation and the other icons. So to make it easiers for others to read, I use the first "Answer" for long explanations. As for your other point, the audience in that place was very mixed with lots of women - maybe 30% of the audience if I were to guess. Not sure what that says, and given the somewhat unusual distinction you make between what constitutes public and private, that may explain it. Still, I am not sure, if it is in public but is consensual between a man and a woman - as it was between my gf and I in the situation I relate below - why it would "dehumanize" a woman. Does it not just speak to the diversity of a woman's sexual desires?

But how can you conclude that because we take money for something it must be part of our "desires"? And consenting to sex does not save us at all if men care so little about us they kill us and cut our bodies up and throw us in a river after they lose interest in us.

Not sure I follow your question. I was not referring to the sex show I was in, I was more referring to the situation like I related below. Suffice to say, the last situation you describe is not sexual - consent or otherwise - except in the most tangential way. It is murder. Anyhow, I think in all the back and forth on the site, I may have lost the thread - or you lost mine - on this one. Sorry.

Sorry. I saw that on TV, one of those reality murder show like Forensic Files I think. Which has bothered me ever since. We naturally learn to fear men in groups. Because when they play to each other and look to each other for affirmation it can often be dehumanizing to us. Engaging in behavior they would not do on their own. A woman left her family and children to take a trip with them and willingly had sex with both of them. But when they got tired of having her around they killed her undoubtedly just to show each other how cool and uncaring they were. Which kind of men we try and discern and stay away from. I have noticed in group situations that men can pal around with or compete with one another. A little of that is OK because it makes it better for me like we discussed yesterday or the other day. But when it gets to the level they are just using me to compete with or play to or bond with each other then I disappear as a person in terms of my own wants. And what you described just smacks of that so much. Why would I ever be interested in anything like that? OK I believe you that it goes on but I choose not to even think about it because I want to believe that men are a lot better than that. Or at least the men that I know and am with are better. I wasn't brought up with that kind of thing and I am not comfortable with it. Nor do I even want to be.

You wrote: "But when they got tired of having her around they killed her undoubtedly just to show each other how cool and uncaring they were." Not sure how you know that. You are assuming motives you cannot know. Some things - like this murder - are inexplicable. (I would also add that you cannot be sure that you got all the evidence and relevant information from a TV show. For example, were her possessions taken? Was there a robbery motive also involved?) The bottom line is that when a woman - or for that matter a guy - puts themselves in a situation like that, where they are isolated in a group, they are taking an enormous risk. In any group sex situation I was ever involved in I always made sure I knew at least some of the people involved and I certainly would not put myself in a situation where I was far from home and not in some place where I could not find help. (Example: The red light district in Amsterdam is well lit and filled with people. Had it been dark and the streets empty, I would have headed back to the hotel without giving it a second thought. Frankly, what happened in Amsterdam at the sex show was something I had not planned on and I sort of wandered into it. Sure I would not do it for a living, and while I had fun at the time, there was more than a touch of embarrassment and a little guilty feeling the next day. There is in men a certain desire to display. We are visual creatures and it can turn us on. However, everyone is motivated in part by instinct and in part by their individual psychology and upbringing. It does not do anything for you - but it was popular enough to keep a club in Amsterdam open and filled with people.

Well, it is public in the sense that you are in a place that is open to all and that is a mixed company of strangers. Just curious: My gf and I one time took a trip to a resort in the southern Caribbean. It was a small island with only 17 cabins and was only accessible by boat to the main island. It had a beach but it also had a secluded swimming pool surrounded by plants and flowers. At night all but the maintenance staff and the operator of the boat to the main island left for the evening. We had sex in the pool late at night - and it turns out were seen by a couple of staff. Would that, in your definition, be public or private?

Public.

Okay, but to my mind both are public in the sense that both are open to strangers who are watching and not participating. Thanks.

To me it belongs indoors. Yes I understand it is arousing - the thrill of being caught or seen etc. though I have never felt that. I like being watched when I am with somebody in more open situations like couples evening or swingers club where I expect that. As long as I can just be myself it is flattering that men (and sometimes women) like to watch me with someone. With my husband or lover it is private and just about us. Though yes I think I have written that my husband's daughters have spied on us together at home when they were living there or visiting. Adult daughters. I know one of them has and the other yes probably but I did not expect they would and I'm sure was just their curiosity about their father and me and nothing they did not already know.

Well, my gf and I are not specifically looking to be watched. It is more an attitude of we don't worry about it all that much. The thing about the hotel in the Caribbean is that it was beautiful, under the stars, relatively isolated and the resort was generally quiet at night. That we might be seen - and in fact it turned out that we were - added an element of "naturalness" to it and "naughtiness." It was a mix of factors, not just one. You yourself didn't mind being watched by your husband's daughters. You were not going out of your way to BE watched, but you were willing to accept it. Your thinking was far more nuanced when you consider it. (In contrast, our oldest son has caught mommy and daddy having sex - we did not let him watch.) By the way, curiosity about their father? Probably not - at least not in the innocent intellectual way you seemed to have framed it in your mind. Seeing two people having sex can be embarrassing or arousing,. It is seldom abstractly intellectual.